3 ms·

I know this sounds crazy, but I don't want to buy in CA because we're running out of water. There seems to be no long-term solution besides the desalination of

by debt 12y ago

I know this sounds crazy, but I don't want to buy in CA because we're running out of water. There seems to be no long-term solution besides the desalination of ocean water. There are towns[2] in California here people have paid off their mortgage, yet might not have running water in a year. [1]http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_25013388/california-drought-17-communities-could-run-out-water http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_25013388/california-dr... [2]http://www.newsweek.com/what-happens-when-town-runs-out-water-227929 http://www.newsweek.com/what-happens-when-town-runs-out-wate...

paulbaumgart 12y ago
What's wrong with desalination? Israel does it: http://www.haaretz.com/life/nature-environment/1.596270 http://www.haaretz.com/life/nature-environment/1.596270 And San Diego will too, soon: http://carlsbaddesal.com http://carlsbaddesal.com
- Afforess 12y ago
  Super-expensive and massive energy requirements. Its the least efficient way to produce water. Also produces brine-salt waste which is nasty to process or dispose of. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desalination#Considerations_and_criticism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desalination#Considerations_and...
  - scythe 12y ago
    Even these costs pale in comparison to the annihilation of the Colorado River watershed. Desalination would make California produce much more expensive; it might severely hurt the lettuce industry. But it would save the environment of Arizona and northern Baja. Also the energy required to desalinate all the water in a LA house is less than that to heat one in Detroit. Especially since the rise of solar energy (and tokamak fusion and geothermal) means that electricity is going to mostly get cheaper and cleaner in the foreseeable future.
    - paulbaumgart 12y ago
      Exactly! And as "natural" water becomes more scarce, prices will rise, incentivizing investment and innovation in desalination, making it more and more efficient over time.
      - Afforess 12y ago
        Desalination has a fixed energy cost that can't be "innovated" away. It requires at minimum, 1kwH/m^3, in a completely 100% energy efficient system (such a perfect system does not exist). That is the base energy required to boil the water away. Chemistry isn't like software, you can't innovate away the laws of physics.
        paulbaumgart 12y ago
        I don't think our statements are incompatible (there's plenty of room for optimizing capex, even if opex has clear physical limits), but that reminds me of one of my favorite Simpsons quotes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vxHkAQRQUQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vxHkAQRQUQ
- debt 12y ago
  Desalination has a very large negative impact on the natural ecosystems within the ocean[1]. http://www.pacinst.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2013/02/desalination_report3.pdf http://www.pacinst.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2013/02/d...
pierlux 12y ago
I second your opinion and now I worry about my house's value in 10 years.
ahomescu1 12y ago
In Orange County at least, they also have a system that takes sewage water and purifies it into clean water [1]. 1 - http://www.gwrsystem.com/ http://www.gwrsystem.com/
mathattack 12y ago
There are reasons to fear everywhere. How about also rising coasts due to global warming?
imperialdrive 12y ago
I wouldn't worry so much about water... it will go up in price, but there is enough at current heading to last at least 75 years before either nitrates or salt water step in... worry about the next earthquake... that is beyond overdue
uptown 12y ago
Speaking of water, I came across an interesting post that talks about how much water is consumed to produce common food items. For instance, to produce one banana, approximately 160 litres of water are required. http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/jan/10/how-much-water-food-production-waste http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/jan/10/how-muc... http://ni.lovefoodhatewaste.com/node/3838 http://ni.lovefoodhatewaste.com/node/3838 It's something few people probably ever think about these days, but when you consider not only the food consumed, but also the food wasted every-day and extrapolate these figures onto the amount of water required to produce that food it really awakens you to the extreme demands placed on the world's water supply.

by debt 12y ago

paulbaumgart 12y ago

What's wrong with desalination? Israel does it: http://www.haaretz.com/life/nature-environment/1.596270 http://www.haaretz.com/life/nature-environment/1.596270 And San Diego will too, soon: http://carlsbaddesal.com http://carlsbaddesal.com

Afforess 12y ago
Super-expensive and massive energy requirements. Its the least efficient way to produce water. Also produces brine-salt waste which is nasty to process or dispose of. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desalination#Considerations_and_criticism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desalination#Considerations_and...
- scythe 12y ago
  Even these costs pale in comparison to the annihilation of the Colorado River watershed. Desalination would make California produce much more expensive; it might severely hurt the lettuce industry. But it would save the environment of Arizona and northern Baja. Also the energy required to desalinate all the water in a LA house is less than that to heat one in Detroit. Especially since the rise of solar energy (and tokamak fusion and geothermal) means that electricity is going to mostly get cheaper and cleaner in the foreseeable future.
  - paulbaumgart 12y ago
    Exactly! And as "natural" water becomes more scarce, prices will rise, incentivizing investment and innovation in desalination, making it more and more efficient over time.
    - Afforess 12y ago
      Desalination has a fixed energy cost that can't be "innovated" away. It requires at minimum, 1kwH/m^3, in a completely 100% energy efficient system (such a perfect system does not exist). That is the base energy required to boil the water away. Chemistry isn't like software, you can't innovate away the laws of physics.
      - paulbaumgart 12y ago
        I don't think our statements are incompatible (there's plenty of room for optimizing capex, even if opex has clear physical limits), but that reminds me of one of my favorite Simpsons quotes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vxHkAQRQUQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vxHkAQRQUQ
debt 12y ago
Desalination has a very large negative impact on the natural ecosystems within the ocean[1]. http://www.pacinst.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2013/02/desalination_report3.pdf http://www.pacinst.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2013/02/d...

pierlux 12y ago

I second your opinion and now I worry about my house's value in 10 years.

ahomescu1 12y ago

In Orange County at least, they also have a system that takes sewage water and purifies it into clean water [1]. 1 - http://www.gwrsystem.com/ http://www.gwrsystem.com/

mathattack 12y ago

There are reasons to fear everywhere. How about also rising coasts due to global warming?

imperialdrive 12y ago

I wouldn't worry so much about water... it will go up in price, but there is enough at current heading to last at least 75 years before either nitrates or salt water step in... worry about the next earthquake... that is beyond overdue

uptown 12y ago

Speaking of water, I came across an interesting post that talks about how much water is consumed to produce common food items. For instance, to produce one banana, approximately 160 litres of water are required. http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/jan/10/how-much-water-food-production-waste http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/jan/10/how-muc... http://ni.lovefoodhatewaste.com/node/3838 http://ni.lovefoodhatewaste.com/node/3838 It's something few people probably ever think about these days, but when you consider not only the food consumed, but also the food wasted every-day and extrapolate these figures onto the amount of water required to produce that food it really awakens you to the extreme demands placed on the world's water supply.