4 ms·

I was thunderstruck by the following: "By inverting this list, we can get a portrait of the 'normal' world. It's populated by people who talk a lot with one an

I was thunderstruck by the following: "By inverting this list, we can get a portrait of the 'normal' world. It's populated by people who talk a lot with one another as they work slowly but harmoniously on conservative, expensive projects whose destinations are decided in advance, and who carefully adjust their manner to reflect their position in the hierarchy." And: "Interestingly, while Kate said that she could never pick out successful founders, she could recognize VCs, both by the way they dressed and the way they carried themselves."

arfrank 17y ago
With regards to being able to pick out founders and VCs, I wonder if the inability to pick out successful founders is due to the fact that they look just like everyone else who is trying to create something and do something cool, and after they have become successful they see no need to change themselves because thats what got them their in the first place. As for VCs this could be due to the fact that they in order to maintain their position need to have a certain composure.
replicatorblog 17y ago
I wonder if the issue of carriage has more to do with the Avg. age of founders being ~25yrs. vs. VC's ~45yrs. Beyond the obvious appearance issues you tend to develop more confidence, present better, etc. as you age. That said a fundamental difference in the Funder vs. Founder personality makes sense as well.
- wheels 17y ago
  I can't answer for Kate, but the last speaker of the summer was a founder in his 40s -- and former VC at that -- and he still definitely gave off the founder vibe. I think the biggest difference between younger and older founders seemed to be the relative levels of confidence at various points in the game.
- Gibbon 17y ago
  The average age of founders is not 25.. I suggest you revisit your assumptions.
  - replicatorblog 17y ago
    Yes it is.. I suggest you check your facts. From PG: http://ycombinator.com/faq.html http://ycombinator.com/faq.html What's the average age of people you fund? About 25. A lot of people think it's younger because the press especially like to write about young founders.
    - ryanwaggoner 17y ago
      YCs founders are hardly representative of founders as a whole...not many people over the age of 30 are willing or able to put themselves in a position where they can start a company with $20k. http://www.kauffman.org/Details.aspx?id=1784 http://www.kauffman.org/Details.aspx?id=1784
      - replicatorblog 17y ago
        Of course, but this thread is in relation to the founders at YC and the VC's who speak to them. There are a great many founders of all ages, but they aren't the focus on this article.
  - TriinT 17y ago
    Gordon Moore was 39 years old when he co-founded Intel, for example. Script kiddies these days.... they think all it takes is knowing how to write code. Oh, the arrogance of youth...
- bkovitz 17y ago
  Lots of people, even in their teens, but certainly by their early 20s, take almost a scientific interest in "clothes and carriage". These are the sorts of people who become business majors and read Maxim. Examples of the kinds of things they talk, think, and work on quite deliberately (I am not making any of this up): - How high should you hold your drink? (Correct answer: A little above waist high, somewhat at your side.) - Details about ties, suits, shoes, shirts, pants, accessories, etc. The exact social niche that each possible choice puts you in. - Should you ever apologize, even when you've done something wrong? (No consensus here, but a surprisingly large contingent say "no".) - Exactly how to position your feet when standing casually, in order to demonstrate high status. (Sort of an L shape.) - Which hole in your belt at which to place the buckle. (Correct answer: the third hole.) As Paul Graham pointed out, most people spend pretty much all their time thinking about and practicing these things. Women work on this stuff much more than men, and they tend to notice your skill level at those social games very acutely. It might look like that stuff happens unconsciously, but it doesn't. It's practiced, discussed, refined quite deliberately. It makes me think of programmers thinking about small things like how to name variable names (e.g. name arrays with a plural), when to use aggregation or inheritance, etc. You keep refining every little detail of a skill every day, and two things happen after a while: you get really good, and you can size up someone else's skill level very quickly and accurately.
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
jedc 17y ago
I was recently looking back at the Startup School 08 videos, and the difference between the startup founders (even Bezos) and Greg McAdoo (of Sequoia) was striking. I've since heard that Greg is one of the most "hacker-like" of VC's out there... which would go to further proving that point.
- benatkin 17y ago
  Have you ever seen Vint Cerf speak? I wonder where you'd place him. He's been wearing suits regularly since Junior High.
  - dsil 17y ago
    Vint Cerf is an outlier, in many ways.

arfrank 17y ago

With regards to being able to pick out founders and VCs, I wonder if the inability to pick out successful founders is due to the fact that they look just like everyone else who is trying to create something and do something cool, and after they have become successful they see no need to change themselves because thats what got them their in the first place. As for VCs this could be due to the fact that they in order to maintain their position need to have a certain composure.

replicatorblog 17y ago

I wonder if the issue of carriage has more to do with the Avg. age of founders being ~25yrs. vs. VC's ~45yrs. Beyond the obvious appearance issues you tend to develop more confidence, present better, etc. as you age. That said a fundamental difference in the Funder vs. Founder personality makes sense as well.

wheels 17y ago
I can't answer for Kate, but the last speaker of the summer was a founder in his 40s -- and former VC at that -- and he still definitely gave off the founder vibe. I think the biggest difference between younger and older founders seemed to be the relative levels of confidence at various points in the game.
Gibbon 17y ago
The average age of founders is not 25.. I suggest you revisit your assumptions.
- replicatorblog 17y ago
  Yes it is.. I suggest you check your facts. From PG: http://ycombinator.com/faq.html http://ycombinator.com/faq.html What's the average age of people you fund? About 25. A lot of people think it's younger because the press especially like to write about young founders.
  - ryanwaggoner 17y ago
    YCs founders are hardly representative of founders as a whole...not many people over the age of 30 are willing or able to put themselves in a position where they can start a company with $20k. http://www.kauffman.org/Details.aspx?id=1784 http://www.kauffman.org/Details.aspx?id=1784
    - replicatorblog 17y ago
      Of course, but this thread is in relation to the founders at YC and the VC's who speak to them. There are a great many founders of all ages, but they aren't the focus on this article.
- TriinT 17y ago
  Gordon Moore was 39 years old when he co-founded Intel, for example. Script kiddies these days.... they think all it takes is knowing how to write code. Oh, the arrogance of youth...
bkovitz 17y ago
Lots of people, even in their teens, but certainly by their early 20s, take almost a scientific interest in "clothes and carriage". These are the sorts of people who become business majors and read Maxim. Examples of the kinds of things they talk, think, and work on quite deliberately (I am not making any of this up): - How high should you hold your drink? (Correct answer: A little above waist high, somewhat at your side.) - Details about ties, suits, shoes, shirts, pants, accessories, etc. The exact social niche that each possible choice puts you in. - Should you ever apologize, even when you've done something wrong? (No consensus here, but a surprisingly large contingent say "no".) - Exactly how to position your feet when standing casually, in order to demonstrate high status. (Sort of an L shape.) - Which hole in your belt at which to place the buckle. (Correct answer: the third hole.) As Paul Graham pointed out, most people spend pretty much all their time thinking about and practicing these things. Women work on this stuff much more than men, and they tend to notice your skill level at those social games very acutely. It might look like that stuff happens unconsciously, but it doesn't. It's practiced, discussed, refined quite deliberately. It makes me think of programmers thinking about small things like how to name variable names (e.g. name arrays with a plural), when to use aggregation or inheritance, etc. You keep refining every little detail of a skill every day, and two things happen after a while: you get really good, and you can size up someone else's skill level very quickly and accurately.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]

jedc 17y ago

I was recently looking back at the Startup School 08 videos, and the difference between the startup founders (even Bezos) and Greg McAdoo (of Sequoia) was striking. I've since heard that Greg is one of the most "hacker-like" of VC's out there... which would go to further proving that point.

benatkin 17y ago
Have you ever seen Vint Cerf speak? I wonder where you'd place him. He's been wearing suits regularly since Junior High.
- dsil 17y ago
  Vint Cerf is an outlier, in many ways.