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"Patent trolls" are not the main problem of the patent system, but patents with low or no invention height are the main problem. Also software and business mode

"Patent trolls" are not the main problem of the patent system, but patents with low or no invention height are the main problem. Also software and business models as such should not be patentable at all -- that just over-stretches the system. Some times, I have the impression, that patent trolls are in the mouth of everybody to cover the fact, that they are more of a symptom than a real problem. With bad patent-troll legislation, it could be possible to make things bad for legit inventors. Just think, somebody has invented something and is seeking investors. Now comes a big corporation and steals his invention and builds it. With a patent reform that does ignore such people, he even could be blocked to defend his patent (what is currently difficult enough, because he needs much money to do that).

AnthonyMouse 12y ago
> With bad patent-troll legislation, it could be possible to make things bad for legit inventors. Just think, somebody has invented something and is seeking investors. Now comes a big corporation and steals his invention and builds it. With a patent reform that does ignore such people, he even could be blocked to defend his patent (what is currently difficult enough, because he needs much money to do that). The problem with the existing patent system is the other way around. You come up with an invention only to realize that five of the seven components are each individually patented by the incumbents. Which means that if you do anything they don't like, including trying to enforce your patent against them, they can easily destroy you with litigation. It is beyond silly to claim that patent reform would harm small inventors when it is the status quo that harms small inventors.
- PythonicAlpha 12y ago
  >It is beyond silly to claim that patent reform would harm small inventors when it is the status quo that harms small inventors. It might be, that the status quo harms small inventors. But I wanted to give a different perspective on the one thing that is in focus with the last patent reforms. What you describe, has nothing to do with that. The problem is, that the intention of the reform was to prevent parties with no own production to sue other companies because of patent infringements. And such a move would of course block some patent trolls (not all) but also would massively harm small or single person inventors. "It is beyond silly to claim that" any reform will make things better. I have seen so many reforms in other areas, that just made things worse -- I would even say most of the "reforms" I have seen.
  - AnthonyMouse 12y ago
    > The problem is, that the intention of the reform was to prevent parties with no own production to sue other companies because of patent infringements. And such a move would of course block some patent trolls (not all) but also would massively harm small or single person inventors. You're claiming that small inventors would be unable to enforce their patents against larger competitors, what I'm saying is that that is the status quo. Future passage of patent reform cannot cause that to happen because it has already happened and causality requires the cause to precede the effect. Patent reform could allow small inventors to better enforce their patents because they wouldn't have to worry as much about counterclaims using low quality patents that would currently cause them to be bankrupted with litigation costs. > I have seen so many reforms in other areas, that just made things worse -- I would even say most of the "reforms" I have seen. That isn't an argument. You're effectively saying that most change is bad therefore all change is bad. The premise is questionable and the conclusion doesn't follow from it in any event.
higherpurpose 12y ago
I agree. Dealing with the "patent troll problem" is actually trying to cure the symptom, not the cause. Patent trolls are a symptom of bad patents, which is why it's not surprising to see even big companies "patent troll" in exactly the same way. But people tend to give them a break, because "hey, they at least make some stuff" - even if the stuff they make has little to do with the vague patents they use to extort others for money. Kill bad patents (which perhaps not coincidentally tend to be most software patents), and the patent trolling problem will (mostly) disappear, too.

AnthonyMouse 12y ago

> With bad patent-troll legislation, it could be possible to make things bad for legit inventors. Just think, somebody has invented something and is seeking investors. Now comes a big corporation and steals his invention and builds it. With a patent reform that does ignore such people, he even could be blocked to defend his patent (what is currently difficult enough, because he needs much money to do that). The problem with the existing patent system is the other way around. You come up with an invention only to realize that five of the seven components are each individually patented by the incumbents. Which means that if you do anything they don't like, including trying to enforce your patent against them, they can easily destroy you with litigation. It is beyond silly to claim that patent reform would harm small inventors when it is the status quo that harms small inventors.

PythonicAlpha 12y ago
>It is beyond silly to claim that patent reform would harm small inventors when it is the status quo that harms small inventors. It might be, that the status quo harms small inventors. But I wanted to give a different perspective on the one thing that is in focus with the last patent reforms. What you describe, has nothing to do with that. The problem is, that the intention of the reform was to prevent parties with no own production to sue other companies because of patent infringements. And such a move would of course block some patent trolls (not all) but also would massively harm small or single person inventors. "It is beyond silly to claim that" any reform will make things better. I have seen so many reforms in other areas, that just made things worse -- I would even say most of the "reforms" I have seen.
- AnthonyMouse 12y ago
  > The problem is, that the intention of the reform was to prevent parties with no own production to sue other companies because of patent infringements. And such a move would of course block some patent trolls (not all) but also would massively harm small or single person inventors. You're claiming that small inventors would be unable to enforce their patents against larger competitors, what I'm saying is that that is the status quo. Future passage of patent reform cannot cause that to happen because it has already happened and causality requires the cause to precede the effect. Patent reform could allow small inventors to better enforce their patents because they wouldn't have to worry as much about counterclaims using low quality patents that would currently cause them to be bankrupted with litigation costs. > I have seen so many reforms in other areas, that just made things worse -- I would even say most of the "reforms" I have seen. That isn't an argument. You're effectively saying that most change is bad therefore all change is bad. The premise is questionable and the conclusion doesn't follow from it in any event.

higherpurpose 12y ago

I agree. Dealing with the "patent troll problem" is actually trying to cure the symptom, not the cause. Patent trolls are a symptom of bad patents, which is why it's not surprising to see even big companies "patent troll" in exactly the same way. But people tend to give them a break, because "hey, they at least make some stuff" - even if the stuff they make has little to do with the vague patents they use to extort others for money. Kill bad patents (which perhaps not coincidentally tend to be most software patents), and the patent trolling problem will (mostly) disappear, too.