8 ms·

The incorporated woman

93 points by waterlesscloud 12y ago

Blahah 12y ago
The title is clearly a reference to The Unincorporated Man [0], a sci-fi novel set in a future where everyone is incorporated at birth and exchanges their shares for goods and services, generally losing majority in themselves in order to get an education, house, etc. However, they don't mention the novel in the piece. It's worth a read (not particularly well executed, but some imaginative exploration of the key idea). 0: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4025200-the-unincorporated-man https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4025200-the-unincorporat...
- geuis 12y ago
  The first book in the series is pretty good. It poses some interesting questions and overall is a fun story. The whole story goes off the rails in the later books.
- yzzxy 12y ago
  I've only read the first book, but the personal incorporation system described in it seemed... half-baked. I remember thinking about the way their economic system would interact and finding all kinds of logical inconsistencies. It's an interesting concept to be sure but I feel like it was, as you mentioned, not very well capitalized on.
- angersock 12y ago
  The only real problem with that book--and it's a big one--is that the main character is The Competent Man, and all kinds of story things basically don't matter because we know, ahead of time, that everything will work out. Some of the ideas are played with really well: the whole notion of stock and whatnot, the touch on how terrible VR could be, and so forth. There's a lot of dumb stuff too, though: no real exploration of the space stuff worth mentioning, no real character development (characters are basically static, even the evil ones--compare with, say, Doctorow's Makers), awkward singularity/AI plot points... It's not a bad book, and it has some fun ideas in it, but it's not a great execution (as has been said).
- Tycho 12y ago
  Recent Charles Stross novel, Neptune's Brood, had a similar concept: you are born/created with 'instantiation debt' which you spend the first years of your life working to pay off.
  - eru 12y ago
    Saturn's Children, by the same author, also has people as corporations. Said people are all robots, though, because humanity has become extinct.
    - Blahah 12y ago
      Are these novels any good?
      - eru 12y ago
        Saturn's Children was pretty good. From what I've heard, everything by Charles Stross is worth reading.
- will_work4tears 12y ago
  Oh wow, I was talking about this book the other day with a coworker, but for the life of me couldn't figure out the book's name. Thanks for posting this.
lifeisstillgood 12y ago
Fantastic idea - and nicely taken beyond just art project as an attempt to create a platform for capturing self-data I'm utterly intrigued and can't wait to do some digging
danboarder 12y ago
Increasingly important. A continuation of the 'Attention Economy' movement circa 2005-7 championed by Attention Trust* back then and Locker Project ( http://lockerproject.org http://lockerproject.org ) more recently working toward the same objectives. * http://www.quora.com/What-happened-to-AttentionTrust http://www.quora.com/What-happened-to-AttentionTrust also see http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_economy http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_economy
spindritf 12y ago
its “cost of materials” is close to zero largely because those users have no idea how much their data is worth Ten dollars a year on average. Facebook had $7B in revenues last year from 700M users. That's assuming all of Facebook's value comes from users' data which is not entirely fair. Even if you're an American (making your info more valuable on average to advertisers), you still spend more on toothpaste, hopefully. I get valuing privacy but where did the myth that your data is worth a lot originate? Most people will give their details for a coupon. Not because they don't know data's value but because they do and it's almost nothing. You need to aggregate millions upon millions of users to eke out a profit. Regardless, I like this bit of cold accounting applied to your own life. she calculated how much had already been invested in JLM in its 35 years of pre-corporate existence. Her mother figured out how much it had cost to raise her as a child; college education expenses were added in, as was a modest inheritance and her earnings to date. Adjusted for inflation, the total came to just over $1m, and Ms Morone confesses to being dismayed at how little output this investment had produced.
- bjelkeman-again 12y ago
  The interesting thing is that I value data about me higher than what Facebook's (and other) advertisers are willing to pay. But my will to keep that data out of their hands is just considered an externality by them. The sad thing IMHO is that the onus is on me, to try to be anonymous.
  - vilhelm_s 12y ago
    I guess they could try to Coase it out, but I have a feeling people would not like that either. :) "Dear Mr Bjelkeman-Pettersson, we have accumulated a quite interesting collection of data about you. It sure would be a shame if this information would leak to any irresponsible third parties. However, for a small annual fee we are willing to implement a stringent privacy policy..."
    - bjelkeman-again 12y ago
      I wonder how long until this actually arrives in my inbox?
Mz 12y ago
and assets for which no pricing model yet exists: Ms Morone is still figuring out how to price “services” she currently gives away for free, such as compassion. I honest to god am trying to figure out real answers to questions along those lines. I think it is a big part of why women make less than men: Everyone values our emotional intelligence but then expects us to give it away free, out of the goodness of our hearts, like mom's modeled after "The Giving Tree."
- stealthchk 12y ago
  Women who don't give away their services for free are known as "witches." (The term has undergone a consonantal shift since the Middle Ages and now starts with a "b")
  - Mz 12y ago
    I can't tell if you are criticizing me or sympathizing. FWIW, it's a space I have thought a great deal about and I think I have made in-roads. I don't think it's hopeless. And I am kind of okay with being a "bitch." Successful men are often called "bastards" for being tough enough to make it. The world is not a very kind place for most people, regardless of gender, socioeconomic class, etc.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
kimonos 12y ago
Interesting post! Many brilliant ideas I see in here. Thanks!
goofooii 12y ago
Hello, What does it say about the current state of our laws, that an individual had to register as a corporation in order to gain MORE protection over their personal information and their privacy? Corporations seems to have way too much power, which is often at the expense of individuals and even governments.

The title is clearly a reference to The Unincorporated Man [0], a sci-fi novel set in a future where everyone is incorporated at birth and exchanges their shares for goods and services, generally losing majority in themselves in order to get an education, house, etc. However, they don't mention the novel in the piece. It's worth a read (not particularly well executed, but some imaginative exploration of the key idea). 0: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4025200-the-unincorporated-man https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4025200-the-unincorporat...

geuis 12y ago
The first book in the series is pretty good. It poses some interesting questions and overall is a fun story. The whole story goes off the rails in the later books.
yzzxy 12y ago
I've only read the first book, but the personal incorporation system described in it seemed... half-baked. I remember thinking about the way their economic system would interact and finding all kinds of logical inconsistencies. It's an interesting concept to be sure but I feel like it was, as you mentioned, not very well capitalized on.
angersock 12y ago
The only real problem with that book--and it's a big one--is that the main character is The Competent Man, and all kinds of story things basically don't matter because we know, ahead of time, that everything will work out. Some of the ideas are played with really well: the whole notion of stock and whatnot, the touch on how terrible VR could be, and so forth. There's a lot of dumb stuff too, though: no real exploration of the space stuff worth mentioning, no real character development (characters are basically static, even the evil ones--compare with, say, Doctorow's Makers), awkward singularity/AI plot points... It's not a bad book, and it has some fun ideas in it, but it's not a great execution (as has been said).
Tycho 12y ago
Recent Charles Stross novel, Neptune's Brood, had a similar concept: you are born/created with 'instantiation debt' which you spend the first years of your life working to pay off.
- eru 12y ago
  Saturn's Children, by the same author, also has people as corporations. Said people are all robots, though, because humanity has become extinct.
  - Blahah 12y ago
    Are these novels any good?
    - eru 12y ago
      Saturn's Children was pretty good. From what I've heard, everything by Charles Stross is worth reading.
will_work4tears 12y ago
Oh wow, I was talking about this book the other day with a coworker, but for the life of me couldn't figure out the book's name. Thanks for posting this.

lifeisstillgood 12y ago

Fantastic idea - and nicely taken beyond just art project as an attempt to create a platform for capturing self-data I'm utterly intrigued and can't wait to do some digging

danboarder 12y ago

Increasingly important. A continuation of the 'Attention Economy' movement circa 2005-7 championed by Attention Trust* back then and Locker Project ( http://lockerproject.org http://lockerproject.org ) more recently working toward the same objectives. * http://www.quora.com/What-happened-to-AttentionTrust http://www.quora.com/What-happened-to-AttentionTrust also see http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_economy http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_economy

spindritf 12y ago

its “cost of materials” is close to zero largely because those users have no idea how much their data is worth Ten dollars a year on average. Facebook had $7B in revenues last year from 700M users. That's assuming all of Facebook's value comes from users' data which is not entirely fair. Even if you're an American (making your info more valuable on average to advertisers), you still spend more on toothpaste, hopefully. I get valuing privacy but where did the myth that your data is worth a lot originate? Most people will give their details for a coupon. Not because they don't know data's value but because they do and it's almost nothing. You need to aggregate millions upon millions of users to eke out a profit. Regardless, I like this bit of cold accounting applied to your own life. she calculated how much had already been invested in JLM in its 35 years of pre-corporate existence. Her mother figured out how much it had cost to raise her as a child; college education expenses were added in, as was a modest inheritance and her earnings to date. Adjusted for inflation, the total came to just over $1m, and Ms Morone confesses to being dismayed at how little output this investment had produced.

bjelkeman-again 12y ago
The interesting thing is that I value data about me higher than what Facebook's (and other) advertisers are willing to pay. But my will to keep that data out of their hands is just considered an externality by them. The sad thing IMHO is that the onus is on me, to try to be anonymous.
- vilhelm_s 12y ago
  I guess they could try to Coase it out, but I have a feeling people would not like that either. :) "Dear Mr Bjelkeman-Pettersson, we have accumulated a quite interesting collection of data about you. It sure would be a shame if this information would leak to any irresponsible third parties. However, for a small annual fee we are willing to implement a stringent privacy policy..."
  - bjelkeman-again 12y ago
    I wonder how long until this actually arrives in my inbox?

Mz 12y ago

and assets for which no pricing model yet exists: Ms Morone is still figuring out how to price “services” she currently gives away for free, such as compassion. I honest to god am trying to figure out real answers to questions along those lines. I think it is a big part of why women make less than men: Everyone values our emotional intelligence but then expects us to give it away free, out of the goodness of our hearts, like mom's modeled after "The Giving Tree."

stealthchk 12y ago
Women who don't give away their services for free are known as "witches." (The term has undergone a consonantal shift since the Middle Ages and now starts with a "b")
- Mz 12y ago
  I can't tell if you are criticizing me or sympathizing. FWIW, it's a space I have thought a great deal about and I think I have made in-roads. I don't think it's hopeless. And I am kind of okay with being a "bitch." Successful men are often called "bastards" for being tough enough to make it. The world is not a very kind place for most people, regardless of gender, socioeconomic class, etc.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

kimonos 12y ago

Interesting post! Many brilliant ideas I see in here. Thanks!

goofooii 12y ago

Hello, What does it say about the current state of our laws, that an individual had to register as a corporation in order to gain MORE protection over their personal information and their privacy? Corporations seems to have way too much power, which is often at the expense of individuals and even governments.