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Well, I wasn't trying to be arrogant.. sorry. But would you really take a programming class taught by a professor who doesn't know how to use a terminal?

by danford 12y ago

m_mueller 12y ago
Knowing how to use a terminal != using a terminal for everything.
- danford 12y ago
  I never said that. Anywhere.
  - m_mueller 12y ago
    Yet you seem to be mixing these things up. > IMHO if you're a programmer you should know how to use a terminal to the point that you prefer it over most GUIs Knowing how to use a terminal: Yes, should be required and isn't taught enough. Preferring it for almost any task - no, it depends on the task and it depends on what you're the most efficient with. I have yet to see a clinical study showing that terminal editing leads to performance improvements over proficient use of hotkey based editing with keyboard and mouse. I have nothing against people using it on a project I lead, but I would never make it a criterium. > Vim and terminal usage is not a "time sink" and it pains me whenever I hear people who consider them selves "programmers" claim it to be. Again, you're mixing up terminal proficiency with using it as a your main editor, then belittle those who don't agree with you. > If you haven't learned how to use the terminal yet (or haven't found a use for it) then you aren't a respectable programmer IMHO. I agree with that, but it's a different point as outlined above.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
xg15 12y ago
Well, Alan Turing certainly did not know how to use a terminal :) For some reason his work is still highly relevant today. So yes, I would.
to3m 12y ago
Fondness for the terminal or shell is a question of mindset, not ability. You might be surprised (as I was... and, if I'm honest, still am, a little) at how many skilled programmers there are who don't know how to use it, and how many of those that do know, don't actually make use of that knowledge. And yet, they are still worth paying attention to, unless perhaps you're wanting advice about shell commands. And on the flip side I have also met a number of (relative) dullards whose shell skills were unquestionable.
JoelHobson 12y ago
Yes, absolutely. It'd be a little odd if they hadn't picked up that skill, but I don't see what relevance using or preferring vim could have to, say, teaching functional programming.
irahul 12y ago
What is there to learn about the terminal? You learn the shell, coreutils, shell scripting, sed, awk, editor...Learning these isn't a measure of competency. If you just want name dropping, John Carmack works in Visual Studio, Notch works in Eclipse.

Well, I wasn't trying to be arrogant.. sorry. But would you really take a programming class taught by a professor who doesn't know how to use a terminal?

by danford 12y ago

Well, I wasn't trying to be arrogant.. sorry. But would you really take a programming class taught by a professor who doesn't know how to use a terminal?

m_mueller 12y ago

Knowing how to use a terminal != using a terminal for everything.

danford 12y ago
I never said that. Anywhere.
- m_mueller 12y ago
  Yet you seem to be mixing these things up. > IMHO if you're a programmer you should know how to use a terminal to the point that you prefer it over most GUIs Knowing how to use a terminal: Yes, should be required and isn't taught enough. Preferring it for almost any task - no, it depends on the task and it depends on what you're the most efficient with. I have yet to see a clinical study showing that terminal editing leads to performance improvements over proficient use of hotkey based editing with keyboard and mouse. I have nothing against people using it on a project I lead, but I would never make it a criterium. > Vim and terminal usage is not a "time sink" and it pains me whenever I hear people who consider them selves "programmers" claim it to be. Again, you're mixing up terminal proficiency with using it as a your main editor, then belittle those who don't agree with you. > If you haven't learned how to use the terminal yet (or haven't found a use for it) then you aren't a respectable programmer IMHO. I agree with that, but it's a different point as outlined above.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

xg15 12y ago

Well, Alan Turing certainly did not know how to use a terminal :) For some reason his work is still highly relevant today. So yes, I would.

to3m 12y ago

Fondness for the terminal or shell is a question of mindset, not ability. You might be surprised (as I was... and, if I'm honest, still am, a little) at how many skilled programmers there are who don't know how to use it, and how many of those that do know, don't actually make use of that knowledge. And yet, they are still worth paying attention to, unless perhaps you're wanting advice about shell commands. And on the flip side I have also met a number of (relative) dullards whose shell skills were unquestionable.

JoelHobson 12y ago

Yes, absolutely. It'd be a little odd if they hadn't picked up that skill, but I don't see what relevance using or preferring vim could have to, say, teaching functional programming.

irahul 12y ago

What is there to learn about the terminal? You learn the shell, coreutils, shell scripting, sed, awk, editor...Learning these isn't a measure of competency. If you just want name dropping, John Carmack works in Visual Studio, Notch works in Eclipse.