4 ms·

@1 I think the main goal is simply to display OpenStreetMap node density. Nothing more and nothing less. For mappers it's kinda interesting. He did't want to ma

by Vik1ng 12y ago

@1 I think the main goal is simply to display OpenStreetMap node density. Nothing more and nothing less. For mappers it's kinda interesting. He did't want to make a map where the most active mappers are.

BoppreH 12y ago
But if it's the same as a population map, what good is it? If I had asked you about nodes density before you saw this picture, your guess would probably use the population density. If your guess remains the same after seeing the picture, it didn't give you any useful information. I think this is gorgeous, and the process of making a visualization is interesting, but I'm questioning the usefulness of the information portrayed.
- yellowbkpk 12y ago
  But it isn't just a population map. You can see where users have imported data (e.g. the parts of Canada that are lit up in small squares is CANVEC data) and you can see the relative brightness of the map in Europe vs. United States -- even in areas of higher population density the US is dimmer than most of Europe because there are more mappers there.
  - BoppreH 12y ago
    I hadn't noticed the small squares before. I stand corrected in that front, that is useful. But on the Europe vs USA case note how you are automatically adjusting for population. Because of this you can only interpret data for places you know the demographics, and even that is error prone.
- rakoo 12y ago
  > I'm questioning the usefulness of the information portrayed It does give you information on which parts of the world are more active in the project: the 3 biggest economic regions are the more mapped regions. Besides, does everything need to be useful ?
  - BoppreH 12y ago
    I'm getting frustrated here. It does give you information on which parts of the world are more active in the project: the 3 biggest economic regions are the more mapped regions. That's exactly what the grandparent said, and I tried to rebut in the second paragraph. It might be a communication problem, but I feel like you didn't read my reply to his message. Besides, does everything need to be useful ? That's also explained in my reply above, third paragraph. It doesn't have to be useful, I'm not advocating the removal of this webpage from the internet, or preventing people from creating more visualizations like this. What I'm saying is that visualizations usually portray useful information, but I'm arguing that this one does not. That's all. <rant> This thread is making me sad. I feel like I made a valuable contribution, a little negative maybe, but useful nonetheless. I pointed out subtle but important problems, gave suggestions on how to fix them. I applauded the visual graphics. Then I'm flooded with downvotes and replies that, from my point of view, are not correct. The only one I felt that helped change my mind a little was the CANVEC data squares, but all the others felt like communication failures. If I feel like you didn't read the message you're replying to, one of us made a terrible mistake. This whole affair bummed me out so much that I'm considering logging out and not contributing anymore. </rant>
    - maxerickson 12y ago
      I've experienced the downvote piling on before, it's definitely irritating to make a good faith effort and then have a bunch of people express their disagreement with clicks. I do think that most of the replies are simply politely disagreeing with you, not missing the point you made. You mention the CanVec imports, another issue with the adjustment for population density is that OSM activity around the globe is not uniform; it's no doubt changed since this posting, but it gives an idea: http://neis-one.org/2012/11/active-users-osm-nov12/ http://neis-one.org/2012/11/active-users-osm-nov12/ The activity is substantially higher in some countries, per population, and also per area. There are a lot of other imported data sets that aren't terribly connected to population. The U.S. would look dramatically different without the TIGER road import, and the import of node heavy NHD data doesn't particularly follow a population distribution, in addition to not being completed. For example, if you look here: http://tyrasd.github.io/osm-node-density/#7/41.034/-93.142 http://tyrasd.github.io/osm-node-density/#7/41.034/-93.142 and then zoom in on the OSM map, it's pretty evident where an import was done and where an import was not done: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/40.9580/-93.4140 http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/40.9580/-93.4140 But there's no connection between that dividing line and population density, it's from however the source data was split up (probably separate watersheds).

by Vik1ng 12y ago

BoppreH 12y ago

But if it's the same as a population map, what good is it? If I had asked you about nodes density before you saw this picture, your guess would probably use the population density. If your guess remains the same after seeing the picture, it didn't give you any useful information. I think this is gorgeous, and the process of making a visualization is interesting, but I'm questioning the usefulness of the information portrayed.

yellowbkpk 12y ago
But it isn't just a population map. You can see where users have imported data (e.g. the parts of Canada that are lit up in small squares is CANVEC data) and you can see the relative brightness of the map in Europe vs. United States -- even in areas of higher population density the US is dimmer than most of Europe because there are more mappers there.
- BoppreH 12y ago
  I hadn't noticed the small squares before. I stand corrected in that front, that is useful. But on the Europe vs USA case note how you are automatically adjusting for population. Because of this you can only interpret data for places you know the demographics, and even that is error prone.
rakoo 12y ago
> I'm questioning the usefulness of the information portrayed It does give you information on which parts of the world are more active in the project: the 3 biggest economic regions are the more mapped regions. Besides, does everything need to be useful ?
- BoppreH 12y ago
  I'm getting frustrated here. It does give you information on which parts of the world are more active in the project: the 3 biggest economic regions are the more mapped regions. That's exactly what the grandparent said, and I tried to rebut in the second paragraph. It might be a communication problem, but I feel like you didn't read my reply to his message. Besides, does everything need to be useful ? That's also explained in my reply above, third paragraph. It doesn't have to be useful, I'm not advocating the removal of this webpage from the internet, or preventing people from creating more visualizations like this. What I'm saying is that visualizations usually portray useful information, but I'm arguing that this one does not. That's all. <rant> This thread is making me sad. I feel like I made a valuable contribution, a little negative maybe, but useful nonetheless. I pointed out subtle but important problems, gave suggestions on how to fix them. I applauded the visual graphics. Then I'm flooded with downvotes and replies that, from my point of view, are not correct. The only one I felt that helped change my mind a little was the CANVEC data squares, but all the others felt like communication failures. If I feel like you didn't read the message you're replying to, one of us made a terrible mistake. This whole affair bummed me out so much that I'm considering logging out and not contributing anymore. </rant>
  - maxerickson 12y ago
    I've experienced the downvote piling on before, it's definitely irritating to make a good faith effort and then have a bunch of people express their disagreement with clicks. I do think that most of the replies are simply politely disagreeing with you, not missing the point you made. You mention the CanVec imports, another issue with the adjustment for population density is that OSM activity around the globe is not uniform; it's no doubt changed since this posting, but it gives an idea: http://neis-one.org/2012/11/active-users-osm-nov12/ http://neis-one.org/2012/11/active-users-osm-nov12/ The activity is substantially higher in some countries, per population, and also per area. There are a lot of other imported data sets that aren't terribly connected to population. The U.S. would look dramatically different without the TIGER road import, and the import of node heavy NHD data doesn't particularly follow a population distribution, in addition to not being completed. For example, if you look here: http://tyrasd.github.io/osm-node-density/#7/41.034/-93.142 http://tyrasd.github.io/osm-node-density/#7/41.034/-93.142 and then zoom in on the OSM map, it's pretty evident where an import was done and where an import was not done: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/40.9580/-93.4140 http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/40.9580/-93.4140 But there's no connection between that dividing line and population density, it's from however the source data was split up (probably separate watersheds).