14 ms·
I'd love to ask Andreessen, (or anyone here, really) a question informed by a book on pg's reading list: I, too, am dubious about Pikkety's thesis. But I'd lik
by mr_luc 12y ago
I'd love to ask Andreessen, (or anyone here, really) a question informed by a book on pg's reading list:
I, too, am dubious about Pikkety's thesis. But I'd like to call out a distinction between the concentration of wealth, and the static nature of the oligarchy. One will continue to happen, the other Pikkety could be dead wrong about.
Andreessen says (paraphrasing) in the interview, 'Pikkety says wealth and oligarchies will happen, but look at the Forbes 400 and you see lots of churn, where is this supposed stability that will happen with rich people cementing their gains'.
It's true that Pikkety presents a view of social mobility becoming increasingly static, and reverting to a supposed historical norm.
But one lovely book I have pg to thank for reading, "The World We Have Lost", talks about how things were in England according to an analysis of actual data (county records etc). One chapter, 'The One-Class Society' ('gentlemen' were the class, the only class that mattered), speaks of how there actually was a large amount of 'churn' in the gentleman class -- even outside of cities and the merchant classes, it was possible for a father to become a substantial yoeman, and his heir to become a gentleman. Families went up, families went down.
But despite a certain amount of mobility being possible, all effective wealth and power that mattered was still very concentrated, as it has been for much of recorded human history, for many reasons.
This was momentarily interrupted by the usefulness of humans as wet robots that were briefly able to exert the political and economic leverage necessary to drive hard collective bargains about their compensation.
That was temporary. (Offshore wet robots, and eventually dry robots, taking the place of the less-needed troublemakers).
Wealth, even if mobile, will inevitably become more concentrated due simply to better technology and efficiency -- how can this not be so? It seems self-evident.
So, I guess the question is:
If technology magnifies individual differences in productivity, and if we accept as a given that attempting to tax away the resulting fruits of that productivity is on the whole economically injurious to an economy, how can wealth not become more concentrated over time?
(Yes, of course, there will be churn and disruption, and wealth will change hands. Even as it did among the gentleman class in England in the 1500s; families came up and families went down. But because of technological magnification of productivity it should tend to go to fewer people. This just seems like a natural law.)
- paletoy 12y agoOne answer would be that russian communism and other communistic countries inspired by it are just one pretty bad type of collective society , and we really haven't enough variations to say collectivism has failed. But you won't hear something like that from marc, even if there were decent evidence to support this view(the nordic countries might be one such evidence).
- nugget 12y agoExcept the former Soviet Union countries were not collective societies. There were rich, powerful people and there were poor, powerless people. Instead of dollars (as in the US), the currency was political power and influence which then led to a nicer car and a nicer apartment. Collectivism was just the narrative that kept the 99% from revolting - for awhile.
- paletoy 12y agoWell, of course nothing is perfect. But according to [1] The ussr in 1980 has a similar gini coefficent(which measures inequality) to modern day finland[2]. That seems pretty good. [1]www.roiw.org/1993/23.pdf [2]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equ...
- lukasm 12y agoThe problem with nordic countries is they may be "exceptions that prove the rule". You have to consider: 1. Natural resources 2. Massive advantage after WW2 (low damage, all other factories in Europe were destroyed) 3. Cultural context In the end of 1940s GDP/person in Sweden was 2x comparing to Germany. Now they are closing the gap, Sweden got relatively high unemployment and the government is cutting the taxes to stimulate the growth.
- paletoy 12y agoCould you share your data regarding sweden ? Because a rough google search tends to indicate otherwise : http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hiivxsweO-A/TevbWlBTyoI/AAAAAAAAA8I/knROBKFKx8s/s1600/comparative%2Beconomic%2Bgrowth.jpg http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hiivxsweO-A/TevbWlBTyoI/AAAAAAAAA8... http://shaneleavy.blogspot.co.il/2011/06/economic-growth-trends-since-1969.html http://shaneleavy.blogspot.co.il/2011/06/economic-growth-tre...