5 ms·

VMware May Be Microsoft’s Top Rival After Google

36 points by nice1 17y ago

brg 17y ago
Doesn't Apple play a role at the top there?
- tptacek 17y ago
  No?
- nailer 17y ago
  Depends whether there means 'in virtualization' (no) or 'as a Microsoft competitor' (yes). Judging from the moderation I think people have taken it both ways.
  - brg 17y ago
    I definitely meant as a Microsoft competitor. I read the article's emphasis on virtualization as an explanation of VMWare's product, not as the emphasis of the article.
bradgessler 17y ago
Google Link (no login) http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=Challenging+Microsoft+With+a+New+Technology&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&#38...
tptacek 17y ago
My experience is that enterprise VMWare shops buy more server OS licenses, not less.
- mcantelon 17y ago
  Yeah, the article doesn't make sense. How is VMWare is a major Microsoft competitor?
  - tptacek 17y ago
    Microsoft does have a virtualization product, but I'm pretty sure they'll sell you a search engine too. It's pretty evident that 10 years from now, virtualization will be as standard in mainstream operating systems as cooperative multitasking. But that's VMWare's problem, not MSFT's.
    - gaius 17y ago
      What VMware sells is the tools for managing large estates of virtual infrastructure. That's a problem that isn't solved just by having a virtualization layer in your OS.
- prodigal_erik 17y ago
  Someday they're going to realize VMware is arbitrating access to their hardware and is therefore an operating system, Windows (or Linux) on top of it is just a ridiculously large API compatibility layer, and they only need that until they buy or build native VMware apps to do the same work (I think the marketers call them "appliances").
  - gaius 17y ago
    People are realizing that. Why do you need a Windows file server when a NetApp speaks CIFS? You would need some sort of storage array anyway! Even these days, an awful lot of Windows servers are doing exactly what Netware was doing before them, file and print serving. MS obviously recognize this with the new Server Core Edition. But printers are first-class citizens too now, many of them don't need a server, they just plug directly into the network, run their own admin app over HTTP...
    - tptacek 17y ago
      Because the NetApp costs a whole hell of a lot more than a Windows server?
      - gaius 17y ago
        You would have to buy the disks anyway.
  - nebula 17y ago
    You are absolutely right. Look at http://storagezilla.typepad.com/storagezilla/2009/08/vmwarespringsource-death-of-the-server-template.html http://storagezilla.typepad.com/storagezilla/2009/08/vmwares... For some perspective on Vmware's strategy in this area.
    - halo 17y ago
      >And he's right, if we look around we see lots of 3rd generation Frameworks and some of them are more cross platform than others. We all know about Java and .Net but Cocoa for MacOS X (Found on your Mac and your iPhone) Adobe Air, Microsoft Silverlight and so on are all examples of Third Generation Frameworks. Erm, one of them isn't like the others.
rocketman 17y ago
Microsoft is a little slow on the defense as well. Apparently Windows Ultimate comes with a virtual XP mode that pales in comparison to even VMware's free product, Player. Keep it up VMware :)
- tptacek 17y ago
  Almost all of VMWare's products are free, including a version of ESX. Nobody is using Win7 XPM as a VMWare replacement.
  - xtho 17y ago
    The products that are actually useful (eg workstation) are not free. Even those products you mentioned are free only in the sense of free beer -- with obligatory registration.
    - jdbeast00 17y ago
      concur. I stated off on workstation and when i tried to revert to VMPlayer i was dismayed. its barely usable for even running VM's.
akamaka 17y ago
Adobe anyone? MS has a massive effort underway to compete with the Flash platform and associated tools for designers.
michael_dorfman 17y ago
I think the whole premise of the article has to be re-examined. Microsoft doesn't have "a rival", per se-- it is competing in too many different arenas, and may or may not have significant rivals in each of them.
- nebula 17y ago
  it(MSFT) is competing in too many different arenas That is one of the reasons I don't like them. Whenever someone comes up with something innovative, MSFT jumps into that area, copies the concepts; uses the financial muscle and its huge presence the existing markets to kill the competition. Netscape is only an example of that strategy. It's a bad thing for a lot of potential startups.
brisance 17y ago
Microsoft's top rival is itself. Why buy Windows 7 when you can continue to run XP and have Windows 7 in a virtualized environment?
- nailer 17y ago
  'Why buy Windows 7 when you can continue to run XP' is probably it. There's no great rush of happy XP users wanting to 7 in a VM.
- xtho 17y ago
  Erm, how do you get win7 to run in a virtualized environment without "buying it"? I think the "more natural" course of things would be to run the existing win xp installation in a virtualized environment on a non-ms os.
tzury 17y ago
Here is one simple threat, happened to me using VirtualBox but same applies on VMWare. Say you got 10 Linux Machines on your startup. Your developers are all doing their development on the linux but have to test the product on windows as well. Moreover, you need to author/edit/view some files on windows/ms office. Since you are running your windows/ms office instance on a virtual machine, you will need to buy a single license for the product and then once you had it activated, you can simply clone the machines across the network having each one of your developer his/her own copy of this windows instance. In this case it might or might not be legally permitted but there can be a virtual product which breaks the licensing model without breaking the law.

36 points by nice1 17y ago

brg 17y ago

Doesn't Apple play a role at the top there?

tptacek 17y ago
No?
nailer 17y ago
Depends whether there means 'in virtualization' (no) or 'as a Microsoft competitor' (yes). Judging from the moderation I think people have taken it both ways.
- brg 17y ago
  I definitely meant as a Microsoft competitor. I read the article's emphasis on virtualization as an explanation of VMWare's product, not as the emphasis of the article.

bradgessler 17y ago

Google Link (no login) http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=Challenging+Microsoft+With+a+New+Technology&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&#38...

tptacek 17y ago

My experience is that enterprise VMWare shops buy more server OS licenses, not less.

mcantelon 17y ago
Yeah, the article doesn't make sense. How is VMWare is a major Microsoft competitor?
- tptacek 17y ago
  Microsoft does have a virtualization product, but I'm pretty sure they'll sell you a search engine too. It's pretty evident that 10 years from now, virtualization will be as standard in mainstream operating systems as cooperative multitasking. But that's VMWare's problem, not MSFT's.
  - gaius 17y ago
    What VMware sells is the tools for managing large estates of virtual infrastructure. That's a problem that isn't solved just by having a virtualization layer in your OS.
prodigal_erik 17y ago
Someday they're going to realize VMware is arbitrating access to their hardware and is therefore an operating system, Windows (or Linux) on top of it is just a ridiculously large API compatibility layer, and they only need that until they buy or build native VMware apps to do the same work (I think the marketers call them "appliances").
- gaius 17y ago
  People are realizing that. Why do you need a Windows file server when a NetApp speaks CIFS? You would need some sort of storage array anyway! Even these days, an awful lot of Windows servers are doing exactly what Netware was doing before them, file and print serving. MS obviously recognize this with the new Server Core Edition. But printers are first-class citizens too now, many of them don't need a server, they just plug directly into the network, run their own admin app over HTTP...
  - tptacek 17y ago
    Because the NetApp costs a whole hell of a lot more than a Windows server?
    - gaius 17y ago
      You would have to buy the disks anyway.
- nebula 17y ago
  You are absolutely right. Look at http://storagezilla.typepad.com/storagezilla/2009/08/vmwarespringsource-death-of-the-server-template.html http://storagezilla.typepad.com/storagezilla/2009/08/vmwares... For some perspective on Vmware's strategy in this area.
  - halo 17y ago
    >And he's right, if we look around we see lots of 3rd generation Frameworks and some of them are more cross platform than others. We all know about Java and .Net but Cocoa for MacOS X (Found on your Mac and your iPhone) Adobe Air, Microsoft Silverlight and so on are all examples of Third Generation Frameworks. Erm, one of them isn't like the others.

rocketman 17y ago

Microsoft is a little slow on the defense as well. Apparently Windows Ultimate comes with a virtual XP mode that pales in comparison to even VMware's free product, Player. Keep it up VMware :)

tptacek 17y ago
Almost all of VMWare's products are free, including a version of ESX. Nobody is using Win7 XPM as a VMWare replacement.
- xtho 17y ago
  The products that are actually useful (eg workstation) are not free. Even those products you mentioned are free only in the sense of free beer -- with obligatory registration.
  - jdbeast00 17y ago
    concur. I stated off on workstation and when i tried to revert to VMPlayer i was dismayed. its barely usable for even running VM's.

akamaka 17y ago

Adobe anyone? MS has a massive effort underway to compete with the Flash platform and associated tools for designers.

michael_dorfman 17y ago

I think the whole premise of the article has to be re-examined. Microsoft doesn't have "a rival", per se-- it is competing in too many different arenas, and may or may not have significant rivals in each of them.

nebula 17y ago
it(MSFT) is competing in too many different arenas That is one of the reasons I don't like them. Whenever someone comes up with something innovative, MSFT jumps into that area, copies the concepts; uses the financial muscle and its huge presence the existing markets to kill the competition. Netscape is only an example of that strategy. It's a bad thing for a lot of potential startups.

brisance 17y ago

Microsoft's top rival is itself. Why buy Windows 7 when you can continue to run XP and have Windows 7 in a virtualized environment?

nailer 17y ago
'Why buy Windows 7 when you can continue to run XP' is probably it. There's no great rush of happy XP users wanting to 7 in a VM.
xtho 17y ago
Erm, how do you get win7 to run in a virtualized environment without "buying it"? I think the "more natural" course of things would be to run the existing win xp installation in a virtualized environment on a non-ms os.

tzury 17y ago

Here is one simple threat, happened to me using VirtualBox but same applies on VMWare. Say you got 10 Linux Machines on your startup. Your developers are all doing their development on the linux but have to test the product on windows as well. Moreover, you need to author/edit/view some files on windows/ms office. Since you are running your windows/ms office instance on a virtual machine, you will need to buy a single license for the product and then once you had it activated, you can simply clone the machines across the network having each one of your developer his/her own copy of this windows instance. In this case it might or might not be legally permitted but there can be a virtual product which breaks the licensing model without breaking the law.