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I understand the anger coming from those who lost sizeable amounts of coins due to MtGox's mistakes, but with an undergoing police investigation, wouldn't the r

I understand the anger coming from those who lost sizeable amounts of coins due to MtGox's mistakes, but with an undergoing police investigation, wouldn't the rational attitude here be to wait for the fog of war to clear up and the investigation results to be announced? Karpeles does not have a serious history of fraud. We don't know yet what happened with MtGox. Wait and see.

Cyther606 12y ago
> but with an undergoing police investigation What gave you that idea? There's no police investigation ongoing in Japan, or anywhere else for that matter. Karpeles is looking at Japanese bankruptcy proceedings, he is not facing criminal charges. He was invited to testify in Texas in light of probable criminal wrongdoing, but he turned down the offer. The only major "investigation" of Karpeles is happening on Reddit and HN.
- strebler 12y ago
  The police investigation is mentioned twice in the interview, i.e. "The police are investigating the case so I won’t be able to say much." There are various new articles about the Tokyo Metropolitan Police and Mt.gox "working together", but it sounds like you are right that the police are not investigating Karpeles.
  - Cyther606 12y ago
    No one has heard anything about a police investigation into embezzlement or fraudulent behavior. Karpeles alludes to the police investigating "physical attacks". Surprise surprise, another excuse.
Crito 12y ago
Governments should reserve judgement until a conviction has been secured, but I do not believe that it is reasonable to demand that private individuals do the same. A presumption of innocence is about limiting the circumstances in which governments can restrict the rights of somebody, but it makes little sense outside of courtrooms. Consider: Richard Nixon was never convicted. Does that mean I can't/shouldn't call him a criminal piece of shit?
- fchollet 12y ago
  What I'm saying is, we don't have hard evidence pro or against Karpeles, what we have is a lot of speculation, typically made by angry people who lost part of their savings (or all of it in the case of Mr. Sillysaurus) in the MtGox collapse. That is not sufficient material to start a mob lynch. The current investigation will hopefully surface whether the debacle was the result of genuine mistakes on the part of MtGox, or the result of wrongdoings. I'm personally reserving my judgment until we have more trustable information.
  - Cyther606 12y ago
    I lost all of $0 and 0 BTC in the MtGox fiasco, but this has no bearing on the ethics of Karpeles, and it's quite absurd that there is no ongoing criminal investigation. It's appauling. It's an outrage!
  - nikcub 12y ago
    > we don't have hard evidence pro or against Karpeles There is a lot of hard evidence: 1. 800k+ bitcoin that are gone 2. Public statements by Karpeles that all was ok on numerous occasions 3. Frozen withdrawals for months that hinted at liquidity problems that were denied (which is a crime) 4. A leaked crisis strategy draft, later admitted by Karpeles as a legit internal document, that showed MtGox knew at least a month before d-day that they were in trouble and trading insolvent. 5. The malleability bug excuse used as a cover to liquidity problems 6. Timeline of withdrawal problem suggests earlier knowledge and inaction What is in doubt is the extent of the coverup, who else was involved and if Karpeles really was behind a plan to ease the liquidity burden by settling his goxbux debt by hyperinflating his remaining bitcoin holding value, and "printing" bitcoin by buying on the market in exchange for GOX USD - which could then be smuggled to another (legit) exchange in return for real USD that could be used to pay back the deflated goxbux.

Cyther606 12y ago

> but with an undergoing police investigation What gave you that idea? There's no police investigation ongoing in Japan, or anywhere else for that matter. Karpeles is looking at Japanese bankruptcy proceedings, he is not facing criminal charges. He was invited to testify in Texas in light of probable criminal wrongdoing, but he turned down the offer. The only major "investigation" of Karpeles is happening on Reddit and HN.

strebler 12y ago
The police investigation is mentioned twice in the interview, i.e. "The police are investigating the case so I won’t be able to say much." There are various new articles about the Tokyo Metropolitan Police and Mt.gox "working together", but it sounds like you are right that the police are not investigating Karpeles.
- Cyther606 12y ago
  No one has heard anything about a police investigation into embezzlement or fraudulent behavior. Karpeles alludes to the police investigating "physical attacks". Surprise surprise, another excuse.

Crito 12y ago

Governments should reserve judgement until a conviction has been secured, but I do not believe that it is reasonable to demand that private individuals do the same. A presumption of innocence is about limiting the circumstances in which governments can restrict the rights of somebody, but it makes little sense outside of courtrooms. Consider: Richard Nixon was never convicted. Does that mean I can't/shouldn't call him a criminal piece of shit?

fchollet 12y ago
What I'm saying is, we don't have hard evidence pro or against Karpeles, what we have is a lot of speculation, typically made by angry people who lost part of their savings (or all of it in the case of Mr. Sillysaurus) in the MtGox collapse. That is not sufficient material to start a mob lynch. The current investigation will hopefully surface whether the debacle was the result of genuine mistakes on the part of MtGox, or the result of wrongdoings. I'm personally reserving my judgment until we have more trustable information.
- Cyther606 12y ago
  I lost all of $0 and 0 BTC in the MtGox fiasco, but this has no bearing on the ethics of Karpeles, and it's quite absurd that there is no ongoing criminal investigation. It's appauling. It's an outrage!
- nikcub 12y ago
  > we don't have hard evidence pro or against Karpeles There is a lot of hard evidence: 1. 800k+ bitcoin that are gone 2. Public statements by Karpeles that all was ok on numerous occasions 3. Frozen withdrawals for months that hinted at liquidity problems that were denied (which is a crime) 4. A leaked crisis strategy draft, later admitted by Karpeles as a legit internal document, that showed MtGox knew at least a month before d-day that they were in trouble and trading insolvent. 5. The malleability bug excuse used as a cover to liquidity problems 6. Timeline of withdrawal problem suggests earlier knowledge and inaction What is in doubt is the extent of the coverup, who else was involved and if Karpeles really was behind a plan to ease the liquidity burden by settling his goxbux debt by hyperinflating his remaining bitcoin holding value, and "printing" bitcoin by buying on the market in exchange for GOX USD - which could then be smuggled to another (legit) exchange in return for real USD that could be used to pay back the deflated goxbux.