4 ms·

I am wondering how long it is before we see an effort to do to Google Play Services what Google did to Java - copy all the APIs and create an independent altern

by zmmmmm 12y ago

I am wondering how long it is before we see an effort to do to Google Play Services what Google did to Java - copy all the APIs and create an independent alternative that lets you build apps that use features from Play Services, without tying your app to Google. Ideally one can then choose what to do from just stubbing them out, filling them with 3rd party alternatives, or providing custom implementations. I would think a nice collaboration between Amazon, Microsoft, some Chinese players and maybe even Yahoo could do quite a nice job of this.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
aikah 12y ago
EDIT : wanted to update my message but deleted it!pasting it here : the value of Android,for most people, is in Google services... not in Linux.People dont care what os android is running,the fact that it is Linux is irrelevant for them,(but not for google). > copy all the APIs and create an independent alternative that lets you build apps that use features from Play Services, without tying your app to Google. Ideally one can then choose what to do from just stubbing them out, filling them with 3rd party alternatives, or providing custom implementations. And who's going to copy all that,for you,for free? > I would think a nice collaboration between Amazon, Microsoft, some Chinese players and maybe even Yahoo could do quite a nice job of this. And now you want to depend on Amazon and Microsoft and Yahoo,is that your vision of independence? And why Amazon or Microsoft would do that when they are pushing for their own closed mobile plateform? Your message is basically "someone do something",not understanding what the success of the plateform is about : Google Services.And then you are calling to players that are even worse offenders than Google when it comes to closed plateforms. What you say makes no sense. You cant run all the services Google provides for free , with no string attached ,it cannot work. And that's why mobile oses that dont provide these kind of services will flop,all of them,because people now feel entitled to get them for free.
- lnanek2 12y ago
  Honestly, there already are quite a few cross platform solutions that try to copy everything and offer it free or in a freemium manner. I'd much rather right PushWoosh push messaging code then have to write iOS, Google, Amazon, etc. for example, so consider the cost well worth it even when it isn't free.
- zmmmmm 12y ago
  I'm not sure what I said that incited such passion in your answer. I did not ask anybody to copy it for me personally, I did not even suggest anything about whether such a project is a free or commercial enterprise. I didn't suggest whether I think this is a good thing or a bad thing. You seem to have picked up on some imaginary points you think I was making without any basis in my actual comment. What I am suggesting is that there are coalition of interests - Android manufacturers that share the situation of being outside of Google's ecosystem. All these manufacturers want apps, and the apps are all on Google Play. They therefore have a very strong interest in having those apps run without modification on their own platforms which is achievable only if someone clones the Google APIs. It seems to me only a matter of time before the incentive to create this gets high enough that someone actually does it.
  - rahimnathwani 12y ago
    It seems to me only a matter of time before the incentive to create this gets high enough that someone actually does it. Yes, but it might be just another big company which does it, and in an 'all or nothing' fashion. In that case you would have a choice (Google or XBigCorp), but I'm guessing you really want to be able to mix and match, and have different parts of the Play APIs served by different apps/daemons/companies/whatever.
    - ithkuil 12y ago
      People have done this stuff for free. GNU/Whatever/Linux itself is a clone of some existing APIs. Wine, reactos, while being far from complete, attacked a far larger API and also a big moving target. It's doable. By amateurs and professionals with passion and spare time.
rahimnathwani 12y ago
Or each of these companies could do it themselves. If you're not yet dominant in a market, then it makes sense to provide support (on your hardware+ROM) for the dominant player's APIs. Once you achieve dominance (in whichever geography/niche matters to you) you want to lock in app developers. I don't know how, e.g. Xiaomi, does this. However, it would be a reasonable strategy to first provide API compatibility for all important Play features, so that apps not targeting the platform 'just work'. Once app developers see Xiaomi as the primary platform (or at least one of the 'must support' ones) then you can create your own API definition for new stuff, knowing that developers will do the work to support your platform, but that this code won't necessarily work with your less powerful competitors' products.
erikano 12y ago
> [...] copy all the APIs and create an independent alternative that lets you build apps that use features from Play Services, without tying your app to Google. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replicant_(operating_system) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replicant_(operating_system) : > Replicant is a free and open source operating system based on the Android mobile platform, which aims to replace all proprietary Android components with their free software counterparts. So I think that at some point maybe the Replicant guys might get to a point where they do what you are looking for, if they haven't already.
- nileshtrivedi 12y ago
  I don't think Replicant is trying to replace Google Play Services. When they talk about "proprietary Android components", they mean firmware and drivers. NOGAPPS on the other hand, is an attempt to replace Google Play Services while keeping API compatibility so that apps continue to run.
ForHackernews 12y ago
> I would think a nice collaboration between Amazon, Microsoft, some Chinese players and maybe even Yahoo could do quite a nice job of this. There's some indication that Samsung is preparing to do just that: http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_24507761/samsung-trying-replace-googles-android-mobile-operating-system http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_24507761/samsung-tryi... http://gigaom.com/2013/10/28/samsung-is-pulling-another-amazon-on-android-but-this-is-even-bigger/ http://gigaom.com/2013/10/28/samsung-is-pulling-another-amaz...

by zmmmmm 12y ago

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

aikah 12y ago

EDIT : wanted to update my message but deleted it!pasting it here : the value of Android,for most people, is in Google services... not in Linux.People dont care what os android is running,the fact that it is Linux is irrelevant for them,(but not for google). > copy all the APIs and create an independent alternative that lets you build apps that use features from Play Services, without tying your app to Google. Ideally one can then choose what to do from just stubbing them out, filling them with 3rd party alternatives, or providing custom implementations. And who's going to copy all that,for you,for free? > I would think a nice collaboration between Amazon, Microsoft, some Chinese players and maybe even Yahoo could do quite a nice job of this. And now you want to depend on Amazon and Microsoft and Yahoo,is that your vision of independence? And why Amazon or Microsoft would do that when they are pushing for their own closed mobile plateform? Your message is basically "someone do something",not understanding what the success of the plateform is about : Google Services.And then you are calling to players that are even worse offenders than Google when it comes to closed plateforms. What you say makes no sense. You cant run all the services Google provides for free , with no string attached ,it cannot work. And that's why mobile oses that dont provide these kind of services will flop,all of them,because people now feel entitled to get them for free.

lnanek2 12y ago
Honestly, there already are quite a few cross platform solutions that try to copy everything and offer it free or in a freemium manner. I'd much rather right PushWoosh push messaging code then have to write iOS, Google, Amazon, etc. for example, so consider the cost well worth it even when it isn't free.
zmmmmm 12y ago
I'm not sure what I said that incited such passion in your answer. I did not ask anybody to copy it for me personally, I did not even suggest anything about whether such a project is a free or commercial enterprise. I didn't suggest whether I think this is a good thing or a bad thing. You seem to have picked up on some imaginary points you think I was making without any basis in my actual comment. What I am suggesting is that there are coalition of interests - Android manufacturers that share the situation of being outside of Google's ecosystem. All these manufacturers want apps, and the apps are all on Google Play. They therefore have a very strong interest in having those apps run without modification on their own platforms which is achievable only if someone clones the Google APIs. It seems to me only a matter of time before the incentive to create this gets high enough that someone actually does it.
- rahimnathwani 12y ago
  It seems to me only a matter of time before the incentive to create this gets high enough that someone actually does it. Yes, but it might be just another big company which does it, and in an 'all or nothing' fashion. In that case you would have a choice (Google or XBigCorp), but I'm guessing you really want to be able to mix and match, and have different parts of the Play APIs served by different apps/daemons/companies/whatever.
  - ithkuil 12y ago
    People have done this stuff for free. GNU/Whatever/Linux itself is a clone of some existing APIs. Wine, reactos, while being far from complete, attacked a far larger API and also a big moving target. It's doable. By amateurs and professionals with passion and spare time.

rahimnathwani 12y ago

Or each of these companies could do it themselves. If you're not yet dominant in a market, then it makes sense to provide support (on your hardware+ROM) for the dominant player's APIs. Once you achieve dominance (in whichever geography/niche matters to you) you want to lock in app developers. I don't know how, e.g. Xiaomi, does this. However, it would be a reasonable strategy to first provide API compatibility for all important Play features, so that apps not targeting the platform 'just work'. Once app developers see Xiaomi as the primary platform (or at least one of the 'must support' ones) then you can create your own API definition for new stuff, knowing that developers will do the work to support your platform, but that this code won't necessarily work with your less powerful competitors' products.

erikano 12y ago

> [...] copy all the APIs and create an independent alternative that lets you build apps that use features from Play Services, without tying your app to Google. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replicant_(operating_system) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replicant_(operating_system) : > Replicant is a free and open source operating system based on the Android mobile platform, which aims to replace all proprietary Android components with their free software counterparts. So I think that at some point maybe the Replicant guys might get to a point where they do what you are looking for, if they haven't already.

nileshtrivedi 12y ago
I don't think Replicant is trying to replace Google Play Services. When they talk about "proprietary Android components", they mean firmware and drivers. NOGAPPS on the other hand, is an attempt to replace Google Play Services while keeping API compatibility so that apps continue to run.

ForHackernews 12y ago

> I would think a nice collaboration between Amazon, Microsoft, some Chinese players and maybe even Yahoo could do quite a nice job of this. There's some indication that Samsung is preparing to do just that: http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_24507761/samsung-trying-replace-googles-android-mobile-operating-system http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_24507761/samsung-tryi... http://gigaom.com/2013/10/28/samsung-is-pulling-another-amazon-on-android-but-this-is-even-bigger/ http://gigaom.com/2013/10/28/samsung-is-pulling-another-amaz...