7 ms·

I have been running this setup (Cyanogenmod + f-droid, no google apps) for the past 9 months and have been quite happy. I use owncloud for keeping my calendar,

by privong 12y ago

I have been running this setup (Cyanogenmod + f-droid, no google apps) for the past 9 months and have been quite happy. I use owncloud for keeping my calendar, contacts, and files sync'ed. K9mail + APG for (signed/encrypted) email. As the article notes OsmAnd is workable, but the what is available through f-droid is 2 versions behind (apparently with low chance of future updates due to difficulties building it). Many apps are open source (e.g., github, wordpress, coinbase, 2FA apps compatible with many services) and so are available through f-droid. Others, like TextSecure are really easy to build from source and install. I have occasionally downloaded apps through one of the APK downloader services mentioned in the article comments -- I've had mixed luck. Some work flawlessly, others don't work at all without the google apps. It would be awesome to see Mozilla's location service [0] integrated into Cyanogen to replace the google location services (which are of course disabled if you don't install google apps). [0] https://location.services.mozilla.com/ https://location.services.mozilla.com/

iamshs 12y ago
This is really informative post for separating Android from Google, to the maximum extent for conscientious people. Location, contacts, wifi access points getting shared with Google very much annoys me. But I was even more peeved of Android when there was no way to store contacts locally. No option to store on the phone, but instead you had to save to google account. I am not doing that. So I went the whole hog and installed CyanogenMod and Xprivacy module (the least I could do). And also disabled Google contacts sync (this enables local storage, did not try it on stock android). So I am annoyed that Google is so invasive in gathering data, but also relish such a beautifully designed OS and the flexibility it provides. And also, appreciate the hard work of developers. Android makes so much possible.
- wutbrodo 12y ago
  > But I was even more peeved of Android when there was no way to store contacts locally. No option to store on the phone, but instead you had to save to Google account. Are you sure about this? This may be unique to Touchwiz or something, but you can save a contact to either the device or to Google contacts.
  - thaumasiotes 12y ago
    I had the same problem when I got a nexus 5. No way to store contact information locally without disabling google contacts sync. And I only knew to do that by complaining on HN at the time and getting the suggestion.
  - iamshs 12y ago
    I am using Nexus 4, so no touchwiz. Only way (or the one in my knowledge) is to disable Google Contacts Sync. The problem with this one is if the switch somehow gets enabled one day, there goes your privacy.
    - nly 12y ago
      When you disable the backup option on your phone, it warns and asks you to confirm that you want your data to be erased from Googles machines. So there's that. But yes, it's terrifying that millions of home WiFi passwords are stored on Google servers.
      - iamshs 12y ago
        No. I did not receive such prompt. The prompt I received was, disabling it can affect other apps. And the two contacts I accidently saved, are still in the gmail account, so there is that. The gmail account was a burner one for the phone.
- aestra 12y ago
  > No option to store on the phone, but instead you had to save to google account. I am not doing that. I have no problems whatsoever storing contacts on my device...and my friend puts all his on his SIM card.
  - iamshs 12y ago
    I am using Nexus 4 with latest and stock Android version. I am not the unique one with this problem either. http://android.stackexchange.com/questions/24331/add-contact-without-using-google-account http://android.stackexchange.com/questions/24331/add-contact...
- dublinben 12y ago
  I haven't had this problem, but I literally cannot create a calendar event on my phone without adding a Google account. I can't make just a local calendar event without adding a fake CalDAV account, or hooking up a real one with Owncloud.
XorNot 12y ago
I keep looking for a lighterweight alternative to OwnCloud for Calendar/Contacts. I really want to switchover to a proper CardDav/CalDav setup that actually supports "Tasks" in my calendar, exactly how Google doesn't and continually fails to.
- EvanAnderson 12y ago
  I haven't used with an Android client, but DAViCal has been working well for me for years: http://www.davical.org/ http://www.davical.org/
- tombrossman 12y ago
  I'm also eager to drop ownCloud ('pwnCloud', I keep hearing), but I think I'll replace it with Seafile + Fastmail's CardDav/CalDav. CardDav is not yet available but promised soon. I wish there were a trustworthy source of prebuilt pure AOSP ROMS, like the source images Google release. Compiling them is no small feat and I'm worried I'll brick my device. With a stock AOSP ROM + Fastmail contacts & calendaring, I think I'll finally have the minimalist install I am looking for.
  - voltagex_ 12y ago
    Did you use GMail before Fastmail? I'm not sure I want to give up push email yet. Do you find that you're missing emails or that IMAP IDLE uses too much battery?
    - daveid 12y ago
      I've used GMail before I switched to Fastmail. Not missing any e-mails, don't notice any excessive battery drain (using K-9 Mail here)
    - tombrossman 12y ago
      I did. I had three GMail accounts, deleted one, moved one to Fastmail, and now use K-9 mail for both the GMail and Fastmail accounts. Performance is great and definitely no issues with battery life or missing emails. Google have recently put their regular email app on the Play Store, so it's possible to keep an apk copy for sideloading if K-9 isn't your preference. My only problem in the past was absolutely horrid syncing and GPS battery drain with Cyanogenmod. I keep going back to try, since first running it on my HTC G1 about 4 years ago. No other ROM gives me trouble, only Cyanogenmod. This is why I'm interested in a 'plain vanilla' as possible AOSP ROM. I'm back on stock 4.4 (rooted) and looking to move back to a non-gapps version soon.
jlujan 12y ago
>I have occasionally downloaded apps through one of the APK downloader services mentioned in the article comments -- I've had mixed luck. One of the biggest issue of running Apps (open source or not) is the inclusion of the Play Store API in the app itself. These apps when not logged into the play store usually crash with NullPointerExceptions. Please... if you are an Android developer... expect your third-party services/APIs to be missing or to crash and handle that case... If you include the Map API or several other Google Services APIs in your app and the Play Store is missing or the user does not have a registered account... calls to those services will most likely result in NullPointerExceptions. Tell me to deal with it, don't crash.
- voltagex_ 12y ago
  I wonder if it's possible to build an emulator image based on CyanogenMod with no Play Services. That'd help with testing the apps, but it's another "device" to target. Developers would be able to see from the crash reports how many NPEs from missing Play Services they're getting and prioritise accordingly.
  - vetinari 12y ago
    Not only it's possible, it is supported out of the box. When you are configuring the emulator, you are choosing the OS version (API level). You have to choose, whether you want "Android" or "Google API".
- nly 12y ago
  Presumably if developers only distribute their app via the Play Store, they aren't too worried about whether their app users are using the Play Store.
  - jlujan 12y ago
    presumably, as a programmer, you check return values. Especially if they could be a null reference
    - 12y ago
redacted 12y ago
There is an ongoing project on XDA (Android ROM/development forum) call NOGAPPS [1], which aims to replace as much of Google's services as possible. I have no idea how far along it is, but there appear to be active users in any case. They have a NetworkLocation replacement which uses Apple's location services, and the dev is planning to add Mozilla Location services in the future. It also replaces Google Maps with OSM. [1] http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1715375 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1715375
mercurial 12y ago
I think what I would miss is quality navigation. This, due to my absolutely non-existent sense of direction, is a major reason for why I purchased a cell phone in the first place. I tried a few non-Google navigation systems but didn't really find anything compelling.
mbq 12y ago
Isn't TextSecure already built into Cyanogen SMS app? And anyway dependent on the Google Play Services?
- aw3c2 12y ago
  TextSecure uses Google's push service because there is no viable alternative available.
  - mbq 12y ago
    Than, what's the point of using a secure communication app if you must also install a spying rootkit to make it work? For me it makes the whole TS not viable.
    - solstice 12y ago
      seems that they are trying to replace Google's push API with a websocket-based solution. See https://github.com/WhisperSystems/TextSecure/issues/1106 https://github.com/WhisperSystems/TextSecure/issues/1106
    - glogla 12y ago
      Sadly, the author of TextSecure doesn't think so. He thinks side-loading of apps and alternate app stores are a problem (he says that allowing installs that don't come from Play store is "returning to desktop security model which is completely broken" [1]). He also opposes TextSecure being on f-droid, etc. [1]: https://github.com/WhisperSystems/TextSecure/issues/127 https://github.com/WhisperSystems/TextSecure/issues/127
    - motters 12y ago
      I'm also running CyanogenMod without the mothership, and that's exactly what I thought. While apps such as TextSecure appear to have a good reputation needing to install probably backdoored proprietary software to obtain them seems to defeat the objective.
    - aw3c2 12y ago
      Please see http://support.whispersystems.org/customer/portal/articles/1476204-why-do-i-need-google-play-installed-to-use-textsecure-on-android- http://support.whispersystems.org/customer/portal/articles/1... If you can suggest viable alternatives, I am certain that the team would love to drop Google from it.
ce4 12y ago
Regarding OsmAnd: You can download free fully-featured releases on the project's site as well [1] (and you may consider a PayPal donation instead of paying via the Play Store then [2]). [1]: http://download.osmand.net/releases/ http://download.osmand.net/releases/ [2]: https://code.google.com/p/osmand/ https://code.google.com/p/osmand/

by privong 12y ago

iamshs 12y ago

This is really informative post for separating Android from Google, to the maximum extent for conscientious people. Location, contacts, wifi access points getting shared with Google very much annoys me. But I was even more peeved of Android when there was no way to store contacts locally. No option to store on the phone, but instead you had to save to google account. I am not doing that. So I went the whole hog and installed CyanogenMod and Xprivacy module (the least I could do). And also disabled Google contacts sync (this enables local storage, did not try it on stock android). So I am annoyed that Google is so invasive in gathering data, but also relish such a beautifully designed OS and the flexibility it provides. And also, appreciate the hard work of developers. Android makes so much possible.

wutbrodo 12y ago
> But I was even more peeved of Android when there was no way to store contacts locally. No option to store on the phone, but instead you had to save to Google account. Are you sure about this? This may be unique to Touchwiz or something, but you can save a contact to either the device or to Google contacts.
- thaumasiotes 12y ago
  I had the same problem when I got a nexus 5. No way to store contact information locally without disabling google contacts sync. And I only knew to do that by complaining on HN at the time and getting the suggestion.
- iamshs 12y ago
  I am using Nexus 4, so no touchwiz. Only way (or the one in my knowledge) is to disable Google Contacts Sync. The problem with this one is if the switch somehow gets enabled one day, there goes your privacy.
  - nly 12y ago
    When you disable the backup option on your phone, it warns and asks you to confirm that you want your data to be erased from Googles machines. So there's that. But yes, it's terrifying that millions of home WiFi passwords are stored on Google servers.
    - iamshs 12y ago
      No. I did not receive such prompt. The prompt I received was, disabling it can affect other apps. And the two contacts I accidently saved, are still in the gmail account, so there is that. The gmail account was a burner one for the phone.
aestra 12y ago
> No option to store on the phone, but instead you had to save to google account. I am not doing that. I have no problems whatsoever storing contacts on my device...and my friend puts all his on his SIM card.
- iamshs 12y ago
  I am using Nexus 4 with latest and stock Android version. I am not the unique one with this problem either. http://android.stackexchange.com/questions/24331/add-contact-without-using-google-account http://android.stackexchange.com/questions/24331/add-contact...
dublinben 12y ago
I haven't had this problem, but I literally cannot create a calendar event on my phone without adding a Google account. I can't make just a local calendar event without adding a fake CalDAV account, or hooking up a real one with Owncloud.

XorNot 12y ago

I keep looking for a lighterweight alternative to OwnCloud for Calendar/Contacts. I really want to switchover to a proper CardDav/CalDav setup that actually supports "Tasks" in my calendar, exactly how Google doesn't and continually fails to.

EvanAnderson 12y ago
I haven't used with an Android client, but DAViCal has been working well for me for years: http://www.davical.org/ http://www.davical.org/
tombrossman 12y ago
I'm also eager to drop ownCloud ('pwnCloud', I keep hearing), but I think I'll replace it with Seafile + Fastmail's CardDav/CalDav. CardDav is not yet available but promised soon. I wish there were a trustworthy source of prebuilt pure AOSP ROMS, like the source images Google release. Compiling them is no small feat and I'm worried I'll brick my device. With a stock AOSP ROM + Fastmail contacts & calendaring, I think I'll finally have the minimalist install I am looking for.
- voltagex_ 12y ago
  Did you use GMail before Fastmail? I'm not sure I want to give up push email yet. Do you find that you're missing emails or that IMAP IDLE uses too much battery?
  - daveid 12y ago
    I've used GMail before I switched to Fastmail. Not missing any e-mails, don't notice any excessive battery drain (using K-9 Mail here)
  - tombrossman 12y ago
    I did. I had three GMail accounts, deleted one, moved one to Fastmail, and now use K-9 mail for both the GMail and Fastmail accounts. Performance is great and definitely no issues with battery life or missing emails. Google have recently put their regular email app on the Play Store, so it's possible to keep an apk copy for sideloading if K-9 isn't your preference. My only problem in the past was absolutely horrid syncing and GPS battery drain with Cyanogenmod. I keep going back to try, since first running it on my HTC G1 about 4 years ago. No other ROM gives me trouble, only Cyanogenmod. This is why I'm interested in a 'plain vanilla' as possible AOSP ROM. I'm back on stock 4.4 (rooted) and looking to move back to a non-gapps version soon.

jlujan 12y ago

>I have occasionally downloaded apps through one of the APK downloader services mentioned in the article comments -- I've had mixed luck. One of the biggest issue of running Apps (open source or not) is the inclusion of the Play Store API in the app itself. These apps when not logged into the play store usually crash with NullPointerExceptions. Please... if you are an Android developer... expect your third-party services/APIs to be missing or to crash and handle that case... If you include the Map API or several other Google Services APIs in your app and the Play Store is missing or the user does not have a registered account... calls to those services will most likely result in NullPointerExceptions. Tell me to deal with it, don't crash.

voltagex_ 12y ago
I wonder if it's possible to build an emulator image based on CyanogenMod with no Play Services. That'd help with testing the apps, but it's another "device" to target. Developers would be able to see from the crash reports how many NPEs from missing Play Services they're getting and prioritise accordingly.
- vetinari 12y ago
  Not only it's possible, it is supported out of the box. When you are configuring the emulator, you are choosing the OS version (API level). You have to choose, whether you want "Android" or "Google API".
nly 12y ago
Presumably if developers only distribute their app via the Play Store, they aren't too worried about whether their app users are using the Play Store.
- jlujan 12y ago
  presumably, as a programmer, you check return values. Especially if they could be a null reference
  - 12y ago

redacted 12y ago

There is an ongoing project on XDA (Android ROM/development forum) call NOGAPPS [1], which aims to replace as much of Google's services as possible. I have no idea how far along it is, but there appear to be active users in any case. They have a NetworkLocation replacement which uses Apple's location services, and the dev is planning to add Mozilla Location services in the future. It also replaces Google Maps with OSM. [1] http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1715375 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1715375

mercurial 12y ago

I think what I would miss is quality navigation. This, due to my absolutely non-existent sense of direction, is a major reason for why I purchased a cell phone in the first place. I tried a few non-Google navigation systems but didn't really find anything compelling.

mbq 12y ago

Isn't TextSecure already built into Cyanogen SMS app? And anyway dependent on the Google Play Services?

aw3c2 12y ago
TextSecure uses Google's push service because there is no viable alternative available.
- mbq 12y ago
  Than, what's the point of using a secure communication app if you must also install a spying rootkit to make it work? For me it makes the whole TS not viable.
  - solstice 12y ago
    seems that they are trying to replace Google's push API with a websocket-based solution. See https://github.com/WhisperSystems/TextSecure/issues/1106 https://github.com/WhisperSystems/TextSecure/issues/1106
  - glogla 12y ago
    Sadly, the author of TextSecure doesn't think so. He thinks side-loading of apps and alternate app stores are a problem (he says that allowing installs that don't come from Play store is "returning to desktop security model which is completely broken" [1]). He also opposes TextSecure being on f-droid, etc. [1]: https://github.com/WhisperSystems/TextSecure/issues/127 https://github.com/WhisperSystems/TextSecure/issues/127
  - motters 12y ago
    I'm also running CyanogenMod without the mothership, and that's exactly what I thought. While apps such as TextSecure appear to have a good reputation needing to install probably backdoored proprietary software to obtain them seems to defeat the objective.
  - aw3c2 12y ago
    Please see http://support.whispersystems.org/customer/portal/articles/1476204-why-do-i-need-google-play-installed-to-use-textsecure-on-android- http://support.whispersystems.org/customer/portal/articles/1... If you can suggest viable alternatives, I am certain that the team would love to drop Google from it.

ce4 12y ago

Regarding OsmAnd: You can download free fully-featured releases on the project's site as well [1] (and you may consider a PayPal donation instead of paying via the Play Store then [2]). [1]: http://download.osmand.net/releases/ http://download.osmand.net/releases/ [2]: https://code.google.com/p/osmand/ https://code.google.com/p/osmand/