3 ms·

If this isn't the smoking gun, it's at least the smoke: Unlike other locating tags, there is no battery in the iFind tag. It recycles electromagnetic ener

If this isn't the smoking gun, it's at least the smoke: Unlike other locating tags, there is no battery in the iFind tag. It recycles electromagnetic energy and stores it in a unique power bank. This is the sort of language that never describes an actual technological breakthrough. It's a combination of a description that's too pat, too abstracted, with a feat that is too impressive to go without at least some reference to the actual processes that make it work.

vlunkr 12y ago
Exactly, if they really created this battery-less technology they could probably do things much more impressive than iFind
- pg_is_a_butt 12y ago
  how do you think RFID tags work?
- mikeash 12y ago
  Not really. There's nothing fundamentally interesting or new here. It's the same principle as a crystal radio, but somewhat more complex since they're claiming to store power over time and then use it in bursts. The real problem here is simply that their claimed power budget can't be covered by the RF emissions they say that it uses. But the idea is reasonably sound even if their implementation may not be.
- vsviridov 12y ago
  http://hackaday.com/2013/01/15/ltc3105-and-ltc3109-energy-harvesting-chips/ http://hackaday.com/2013/01/15/ltc3105-and-ltc3109-energy-ha... There are chips that allow you to gather and store miniscule amounts of electricity from surrounding RF radiation. Bluetooth LE is also designed to be a very low-power devices, so it is within the realm of possibility for this particular project.
  - IgorPartola 12y ago
    So the LTC3105 [1] looks to be able to supply 0.060 amps at 4 volts. Bluetooth LE [2] seems to use about 0.015 amps at peak (voltage not listed). If I am reading this correctly, it is possible. The question is: what actually runs the circuit connected to the Bluetooth transceiver? [1] http://gnodevel.ugent.be/crr.ugent.be/archives/1628 http://gnodevel.ugent.be/crr.ugent.be/archives/1628 [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth_low_energy#Technical_details http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth_low_energy#Technical_...
    - TTPrograms 12y ago
      Micros can be powered on nearly the same budget. I think the product is very much possible with current tech. I can't tell if the creators know how to do it and just used less technical language or if they have no idea what they're doing. At any rate, there have been way crazier scams on Kickstarter (raman spectroscopy tells me nutrition info etc). Didn't Kickstarter ban showing mock up or rendered hardware as substitution for the real thing? Maybe that's all this is?
    - Timmmmbob 12y ago
      Yeah BLE uses about 12 mA while transmitting or receiving. But it does not do that continuously. Its average power consumption can be under 100 uA very easily. However, there's no way you'd get even 100 uA by harvesting RF energy in a package that small.
    - TD-Linux 12y ago
      Your first cite link is wrong. Despite that, looking up the LTC3105, it is a maximum power point tracker, meaning that it is for DC power sources, not AC ones like RF. It also requires a minimum working voltage of 225mV, which is much higher than that generated by RF, especially with such a tiny antenna.

vlunkr 12y ago

Exactly, if they really created this battery-less technology they could probably do things much more impressive than iFind

pg_is_a_butt 12y ago
how do you think RFID tags work?
mikeash 12y ago
Not really. There's nothing fundamentally interesting or new here. It's the same principle as a crystal radio, but somewhat more complex since they're claiming to store power over time and then use it in bursts. The real problem here is simply that their claimed power budget can't be covered by the RF emissions they say that it uses. But the idea is reasonably sound even if their implementation may not be.
vsviridov 12y ago
http://hackaday.com/2013/01/15/ltc3105-and-ltc3109-energy-harvesting-chips/ http://hackaday.com/2013/01/15/ltc3105-and-ltc3109-energy-ha... There are chips that allow you to gather and store miniscule amounts of electricity from surrounding RF radiation. Bluetooth LE is also designed to be a very low-power devices, so it is within the realm of possibility for this particular project.
- IgorPartola 12y ago
  So the LTC3105 [1] looks to be able to supply 0.060 amps at 4 volts. Bluetooth LE [2] seems to use about 0.015 amps at peak (voltage not listed). If I am reading this correctly, it is possible. The question is: what actually runs the circuit connected to the Bluetooth transceiver? [1] http://gnodevel.ugent.be/crr.ugent.be/archives/1628 http://gnodevel.ugent.be/crr.ugent.be/archives/1628 [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth_low_energy#Technical_details http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth_low_energy#Technical_...
  - TTPrograms 12y ago
    Micros can be powered on nearly the same budget. I think the product is very much possible with current tech. I can't tell if the creators know how to do it and just used less technical language or if they have no idea what they're doing. At any rate, there have been way crazier scams on Kickstarter (raman spectroscopy tells me nutrition info etc). Didn't Kickstarter ban showing mock up or rendered hardware as substitution for the real thing? Maybe that's all this is?
  - Timmmmbob 12y ago
    Yeah BLE uses about 12 mA while transmitting or receiving. But it does not do that continuously. Its average power consumption can be under 100 uA very easily. However, there's no way you'd get even 100 uA by harvesting RF energy in a package that small.
  - TD-Linux 12y ago
    Your first cite link is wrong. Despite that, looking up the LTC3105, it is a maximum power point tracker, meaning that it is for DC power sources, not AC ones like RF. It also requires a minimum working voltage of 225mV, which is much higher than that generated by RF, especially with such a tiny antenna.