7 ms·

I also walk around town completely uncamouflaged, voluntarily displaying my uniquely identifiable face and whatnot, and yet somehow most businesses can still re

I also walk around town completely uncamouflaged, voluntarily displaying my uniquely identifiable face and whatnot, and yet somehow most businesses can still restrain themselves and do not follow me around, colluding to enable each other to videotape my every step for analytics purpose. Sure, there's some technical steps that can be taken but there's also a social or cultural dimension to what behavior is popularly accepted fro companies.

spindritf 12y ago
Do you wear an ID around your neck? Do you walk into an establishment, introduce yourself, tell the keeper where you came from, when was the last time you visited, check in with an inter-business tracking device, and then ask them to forget all that? This is what a browser with (or more appropriately, on) DNT is doing. Long way from camouflage. And offline, we should also employ techniques like randomizing MAC addresses in mobile devices. Just like you lock your car even though it's illegal to jack it.
- ben0x539 12y ago
  No, that stuff only happens when I pay with my credit card, I guess.
  - silverbax88 12y ago
    And use a frequent shopper card.
    - sp332 12y ago
      And fill out those surveys on the back of the receipt where you would win $1,000 in gift cards.
- TallGuyShort 12y ago
  Hmm... what if I re-post a legal-sounding statement as my status that refuses to give Facebook permission to use my information? That would work, right? http://www.snopes.com/computer/facebook/privacy.asp http://www.snopes.com/computer/facebook/privacy.asp
- chimeracoder 12y ago
  > Do you wear an ID around your neck? Do you walk into an establishment, introduce yourself, tell the keeper where you came from, when was the last time you visited, check in with an inter-business tracking device, and then ask them to forget all that? Don't worry, there's a startup that's "fixing" that[0]. Nomi uses the MAC address of your phone to identify the brick-and-mortar venues you visit. It's opt-out for consumers, and the only way to opt-out is to register your MAC address with them[1]. [0] http://getnomi.com/ http://getnomi.com/ [1] http://nomi.com/privacy/ http://nomi.com/privacy/
  - milesskorpen 12y ago
    This actually gets killed by an upcoming iOS 8 update (which randomizes you MAC every time it searches for wifi networks). Big pro-privacy change from Apple. While it is problematic that this is iOS only (for now, at least), the large number of iOS device will introduce a ton of noise and make the tracking much less interesting for any company, even if they can theoretically still track Android devices.
  - TheLoneWolfling 12y ago
    Luckily there's a simple solution to that: randomized MAC addresses. My laptop assigns itself a random MAC address on boot. About the only downside is that some captive portals require me to re-sign-in on boot.
    - jasomill 12y ago
      Another downside on some (private) networks is that it breaks MAC-based DHCP reservations.
- sp332 12y ago
  Actually, I don't lock my car because the crime rate in my area is pretty low. In fact the front door of my parents' house is unlocked during the day when they're not home. They've never been burgled.
- bitJericho 12y ago
  I don't think that's particularly fair. The browser shows where you are coming from, similar to you walking from one store that sent you to a second store. The browser's identifying marks are more like the color and type of your vehicle. The ID around your neck? That really is more like a company that would use facial recognition, or tagging your phone and tracking that. What websites do is exactly what the parent described, like to a T. Often stores track you inside the premises though for marketing and display purpsoes, or so I've been told.
  - nitrogen 12y ago
    Browser fingerprints are largely unique, so it's far more identifying than just the color of your car.
    - sliverstorm 12y ago
      They are unique the same way your gender + birthdate + zip code are unique. That is to say, a combination of ordinary parameters that make it unique, and only identifiable if you go to the trouble to do something with the information.
      - bitJericho 12y ago
        I haven't seen many physical stores tracking license plates in a similar fashion.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
- pessimizer 12y ago
  >Do you wear an ID around your neck? Yeah; it's called my face.
  - miahi 12y ago
    Can I follow you anywhere and photograph/record you doing everything? This is usually called stalking and it's illegal, unless it's done by the government, when it's called protecting from terrorists.
    - pessimizer 12y ago
      I agree with you 100%. There's no technical solution.
- pyre 12y ago
  > Do you walk into an establishment, introduce yourself, tell the keeper where you came from, when was the last time you visited, check in with an inter-business tracking device, and then ask them to forget all that? If the shopkeeper kept a logbook that recorded all of that, and then he published said logbook to other companies, you might feel that this was going a bit further than the social contract between you and the shopkeeper allows. Though not a perfect analogy, the shopkeeper and you having small talk -- without anyone writing things and keeping the records forever -- would be tantamount to the server keeping the values in a transient fashion (i.e. for the duration of the request or session and then dropping them).
- samstave 12y ago
  If you're in a car, yes you do. A license plate - and these scanners are all over the place.
- Relys 12y ago
  Check out Pry-Fi by Chainfire for Mobile MAC address randomization.
blumkvist 12y ago
Retail stores most definitely do follow you around and track every move you make in their store and on the parking lot.
zimbatm 12y ago
> yet somehow most businesses can still restrain themselves and do not follow me around Hmm no. It's just harder to do but they are working on it. Any big shop uses tons of tracking on every level. Pay by CC or use your fidelity card, facial tracking, MAC address of your phone. In London a company was providing the phone tracking service on the streets, installed on their bins, until they got shot down by the government.
mantraxD 12y ago
Don't you know almost every shop tracks you by your CC, and they literally put up fake wireless networks, so they can track your phone MAC address when you walk around a store? The world on the street is exactly as cynical as the one online. It's the same world. Online it's just easier to track people even more, so they get tracked even more.
Lagged2Death 12y ago
I also walk around town completely uncamouflaged, voluntarily displaying my uniquely identifiable face and whatnot, and yet somehow most businesses can still restrain themselves and do not follow me around... It's a matter of cost/benefit to the businesses, that's all. When a business can track customers cheaply and finds the data useful, they just do it: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/15/business/attention-shopper-stores-are-tracking-your-cell.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/15/business/attention-shopper...
manishsharan 12y ago
If you use any credit card, points or frequent shoppers card or participate in loyalty program, you are being tracked. If you use a e-coupon, you are being tracked. They are not colluding -- they collect this information and had it to the data mining companies. Why do you think the buzz around big data exists ? Its not just for curing cancer ; its mostly to track and model individual consumer behavior.

spindritf 12y ago

Do you wear an ID around your neck? Do you walk into an establishment, introduce yourself, tell the keeper where you came from, when was the last time you visited, check in with an inter-business tracking device, and then ask them to forget all that? This is what a browser with (or more appropriately, on) DNT is doing. Long way from camouflage. And offline, we should also employ techniques like randomizing MAC addresses in mobile devices. Just like you lock your car even though it's illegal to jack it.

ben0x539 12y ago
No, that stuff only happens when I pay with my credit card, I guess.
- silverbax88 12y ago
  And use a frequent shopper card.
  - sp332 12y ago
    And fill out those surveys on the back of the receipt where you would win $1,000 in gift cards.
TallGuyShort 12y ago
Hmm... what if I re-post a legal-sounding statement as my status that refuses to give Facebook permission to use my information? That would work, right? http://www.snopes.com/computer/facebook/privacy.asp http://www.snopes.com/computer/facebook/privacy.asp
chimeracoder 12y ago
> Do you wear an ID around your neck? Do you walk into an establishment, introduce yourself, tell the keeper where you came from, when was the last time you visited, check in with an inter-business tracking device, and then ask them to forget all that? Don't worry, there's a startup that's "fixing" that[0]. Nomi uses the MAC address of your phone to identify the brick-and-mortar venues you visit. It's opt-out for consumers, and the only way to opt-out is to register your MAC address with them[1]. [0] http://getnomi.com/ http://getnomi.com/ [1] http://nomi.com/privacy/ http://nomi.com/privacy/
- milesskorpen 12y ago
  This actually gets killed by an upcoming iOS 8 update (which randomizes you MAC every time it searches for wifi networks). Big pro-privacy change from Apple. While it is problematic that this is iOS only (for now, at least), the large number of iOS device will introduce a ton of noise and make the tracking much less interesting for any company, even if they can theoretically still track Android devices.
- TheLoneWolfling 12y ago
  Luckily there's a simple solution to that: randomized MAC addresses. My laptop assigns itself a random MAC address on boot. About the only downside is that some captive portals require me to re-sign-in on boot.
  - jasomill 12y ago
    Another downside on some (private) networks is that it breaks MAC-based DHCP reservations.
sp332 12y ago
Actually, I don't lock my car because the crime rate in my area is pretty low. In fact the front door of my parents' house is unlocked during the day when they're not home. They've never been burgled.
bitJericho 12y ago
I don't think that's particularly fair. The browser shows where you are coming from, similar to you walking from one store that sent you to a second store. The browser's identifying marks are more like the color and type of your vehicle. The ID around your neck? That really is more like a company that would use facial recognition, or tagging your phone and tracking that. What websites do is exactly what the parent described, like to a T. Often stores track you inside the premises though for marketing and display purpsoes, or so I've been told.
- nitrogen 12y ago
  Browser fingerprints are largely unique, so it's far more identifying than just the color of your car.
  - sliverstorm 12y ago
    They are unique the same way your gender + birthdate + zip code are unique. That is to say, a combination of ordinary parameters that make it unique, and only identifiable if you go to the trouble to do something with the information.
    - bitJericho 12y ago
      I haven't seen many physical stores tracking license plates in a similar fashion.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
pessimizer 12y ago
>Do you wear an ID around your neck? Yeah; it's called my face.
- miahi 12y ago
  Can I follow you anywhere and photograph/record you doing everything? This is usually called stalking and it's illegal, unless it's done by the government, when it's called protecting from terrorists.
  - pessimizer 12y ago
    I agree with you 100%. There's no technical solution.
pyre 12y ago
> Do you walk into an establishment, introduce yourself, tell the keeper where you came from, when was the last time you visited, check in with an inter-business tracking device, and then ask them to forget all that? If the shopkeeper kept a logbook that recorded all of that, and then he published said logbook to other companies, you might feel that this was going a bit further than the social contract between you and the shopkeeper allows. Though not a perfect analogy, the shopkeeper and you having small talk -- without anyone writing things and keeping the records forever -- would be tantamount to the server keeping the values in a transient fashion (i.e. for the duration of the request or session and then dropping them).
samstave 12y ago
If you're in a car, yes you do. A license plate - and these scanners are all over the place.
Relys 12y ago
Check out Pry-Fi by Chainfire for Mobile MAC address randomization.

blumkvist 12y ago

Retail stores most definitely do follow you around and track every move you make in their store and on the parking lot.

zimbatm 12y ago

> yet somehow most businesses can still restrain themselves and do not follow me around Hmm no. It's just harder to do but they are working on it. Any big shop uses tons of tracking on every level. Pay by CC or use your fidelity card, facial tracking, MAC address of your phone. In London a company was providing the phone tracking service on the streets, installed on their bins, until they got shot down by the government.

mantraxD 12y ago

Don't you know almost every shop tracks you by your CC, and they literally put up fake wireless networks, so they can track your phone MAC address when you walk around a store? The world on the street is exactly as cynical as the one online. It's the same world. Online it's just easier to track people even more, so they get tracked even more.

Lagged2Death 12y ago

I also walk around town completely uncamouflaged, voluntarily displaying my uniquely identifiable face and whatnot, and yet somehow most businesses can still restrain themselves and do not follow me around... It's a matter of cost/benefit to the businesses, that's all. When a business can track customers cheaply and finds the data useful, they just do it: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/15/business/attention-shopper-stores-are-tracking-your-cell.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/15/business/attention-shopper...

manishsharan 12y ago

If you use any credit card, points or frequent shoppers card or participate in loyalty program, you are being tracked. If you use a e-coupon, you are being tracked. They are not colluding -- they collect this information and had it to the data mining companies. Why do you think the buzz around big data exists ? Its not just for curing cancer ; its mostly to track and model individual consumer behavior.