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I came into the field without a background in computer science. I learned on the job how to design, develop, and test software. However, I wasn't allowed to wor

by bpyne 12y ago

I came into the field without a background in computer science. I learned on the job how to design, develop, and test software. However, I wasn't allowed to work on high value projects at the time and a formal mentoring system was in place. I haven't seen an office environment with formal mentoring since the late 90's. I'm a little worried that a crash course in particular development stacks are going to put people with some literacy in a language but no professional judgment (takes years to develop) in positions in which they can do damage. Software is socially pervasive now so mistakes from underdeveloped judgment can have great effect.

dsk139 12y ago
I think this problem does exist for graduates of bootcamps, but more for any graduates of universities. We've been working with companies to provide technical mentorship and we've found that generally those who went through some of the top bootcamps actually are more "successful" at being careful with what they are doing since many of them come from other positions in the industry (former PMs, QAs, etc) and are well aware of the impact that they are making.
- bpyne 12y ago
  Ah, your population is different than I imagined. I had a Doomsday vision of high school graduates and former tradespeople, for example, going for quickie certification. I'd still feel better if we had formal mentors in the office place and projects suited to novices. Even with industry experience in some other occupation (former PM, QA, BA, etc.), it takes years to learn software development properly. Learning a language or stack just gives you an entry point.
  - dakotaben 12y ago
    Don't you feel the same about college grads needing formal mentors?
    - bpyne 12y ago
      College grads are further along the learning curve when they come out. They've had more time to develop skills. They've had more time to make mistakes, which affected their grades only, and learn from the mistakes. Should they have mentors? Formal mentoring should be the norm again PERIOD. Even a new senior level developer coming to a new organization should be paired with a developer familiar with that organization. Although it seems like overhead organizations would only be helped by it.
wisconsinpoet 12y ago
I'm a Dev Bootcamp graduate and current instructor, and I'd say the majority of people graduating from here have gone into positions with mentoring systems in place! DBC would be the last to claim that their graduates are "experts"--there's a very clear expectation while going through the program that you're learning enough to go on to a junior dev or apprentice position and be able to keep learning on the job. Furthermore, we focus a lot on teaching people to be really thoughtful in the way they develop software, and on how to be excellent, communicative members of a team. So I think there's very little risk of reckless Dev Bootcamp grads in positions of power. :)
dakotaben 12y ago
This would be more of a testament to poor hiring practices, interviewing processes and company culture than the fault of any boot camp grad.
- bpyne 12y ago
  Correct. My comment was not assigning fault to boot camp grads. People looking for a job can't be blamed for accepting a job offered. It's been 20+ years since I was broke and trying to break into the field. I haven't forgotten what it feels like. Over the last 15 years, business cultural norms changed with regard to mentoring at the same time that the social importance of software has gone up. I think we need a little caution because safety nets aren't there anymore.

by bpyne 12y ago

dsk139 12y ago

I think this problem does exist for graduates of bootcamps, but more for any graduates of universities. We've been working with companies to provide technical mentorship and we've found that generally those who went through some of the top bootcamps actually are more "successful" at being careful with what they are doing since many of them come from other positions in the industry (former PMs, QAs, etc) and are well aware of the impact that they are making.

bpyne 12y ago
Ah, your population is different than I imagined. I had a Doomsday vision of high school graduates and former tradespeople, for example, going for quickie certification. I'd still feel better if we had formal mentors in the office place and projects suited to novices. Even with industry experience in some other occupation (former PM, QA, BA, etc.), it takes years to learn software development properly. Learning a language or stack just gives you an entry point.
- dakotaben 12y ago
  Don't you feel the same about college grads needing formal mentors?
  - bpyne 12y ago
    College grads are further along the learning curve when they come out. They've had more time to develop skills. They've had more time to make mistakes, which affected their grades only, and learn from the mistakes. Should they have mentors? Formal mentoring should be the norm again PERIOD. Even a new senior level developer coming to a new organization should be paired with a developer familiar with that organization. Although it seems like overhead organizations would only be helped by it.

wisconsinpoet 12y ago

I'm a Dev Bootcamp graduate and current instructor, and I'd say the majority of people graduating from here have gone into positions with mentoring systems in place! DBC would be the last to claim that their graduates are "experts"--there's a very clear expectation while going through the program that you're learning enough to go on to a junior dev or apprentice position and be able to keep learning on the job. Furthermore, we focus a lot on teaching people to be really thoughtful in the way they develop software, and on how to be excellent, communicative members of a team. So I think there's very little risk of reckless Dev Bootcamp grads in positions of power. :)

dakotaben 12y ago

This would be more of a testament to poor hiring practices, interviewing processes and company culture than the fault of any boot camp grad.

bpyne 12y ago
Correct. My comment was not assigning fault to boot camp grads. People looking for a job can't be blamed for accepting a job offered. It's been 20+ years since I was broke and trying to break into the field. I haven't forgotten what it feels like. Over the last 15 years, business cultural norms changed with regard to mentoring at the same time that the social importance of software has gone up. I think we need a little caution because safety nets aren't there anymore.