4 ms·

Immigrants. What a nefarious source of evil to be scorned.

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
gaius 17y ago
They needed a geologist, he needed healthcare for his kids, it's a win/win situation. However Norway has a very low immigration rate.
miked 17y ago
I'm married to an immigrant (from China) and I and America are lucky to have her. Plenty of her fellow Chinese immigrant friends as well. On the other hand, since we're on the subject of Middle Eastern immigrants to Norway, here's something from Bruce Bawer, a gay American who moved to Norway to marry his partner: "Here in Oslo, a gay couple who were holding hands in the largely Muslim neighborhood of Grønland were physically assaulted by a man who told them: "This is a Muslim neighborhood." In a follow-up story, Dagbladet interviewed a local man, born in Pakistan but resident in Norway for ten years, who argues that "Grønland is a multicultural environment where there are many people who don't like homosexuals, so they shouldn't hold hands." He says such things are OK in west Oslo, where there are few Muslims, "but here in Grønland they shouldn't do it. Ideally, it should be forbidden to practice homosexuality in this area." http://memo.brucebawer.com/ http://memo.brucebawer.com/ What matters is the value system of those immigrants, and it keeps mattering regardless of how desperate the politically correct are for an external source of self-worth. (I'm not saying that's you. I am saying that it is a great many such people.)
- delackner 17y ago
  The problem you are describing is a result of ghetto-ization, both self-imposed (people like to live near their "fellows") and externally imposed (lack of a wide range of property values in an area leading naturally to income-segregation, with recent immigrants likely to end up stuck all together). If you solve the problem of income-segregation by somehow generating a city where rich and poor live side by side, then I think you go a long way to tackling the source of ghetto-formation, both for immigrants and the local poor. I have seen several cities where this has been achieved, though I have no idea why it occurs in one area and not another. I have a suspicion that it is tightly related to the density of development. A city with lots of skyscraper apartment blocks (both fancy and simple) can fit so many people in such a small area that even if the rich and poor live in different buildings, the buildings may be so close together that they share the same services (schools, hospitals, restaurants, etc). As a concrete example, I live a short 5 minute bicycle ride from a friend of mine. My 8 story apartment building has about 24 units, all of them relatively modest. My friend lives in a million dollar condo in a building with probably 30-40 units as well. This is in the very heart of the city.
numair 17y ago
There's a massive difference between the emigration of a very smart, talented person who is eager to assimilate and contribute to society, and immigration involving large numbers of people who are unskilled and have no intention of becoming part of mainstream society in your country. (And I say this as an immigrant)
- michael_dorfman 17y ago
  I'm also an immigrant (to Norway, actually), and I can tell you that it's quite difficult in practice to tell the difference-- it's not nearly as "massive" as you think.
  - astine 17y ago
    In Norway anyway. In America the influx of hispanics is quite enormous. Most of them are hard workers and a net boon to our economy I think, but the demographic shift is quite astonishing.
  - numair 17y ago
    I was in Oslo last week - there's large parts of town where it's quite easy to tell the difference. Anyway, this isn't the right forum for this discussion...
    - laut 17y ago
      I read in a Norwegian newspaper that a part of Oslo "Grønland", there was a guy who thought that Norwegians should follow certain muslim norms because it's a muslim neighborhood. This was in response to some people that had been assaulted in the neighborhood.
- netsp 17y ago
  Intention s irrelevant in the long rung. The only reason European politicians talk about it is because you can blame someone for intention.

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

gaius 17y ago

They needed a geologist, he needed healthcare for his kids, it's a win/win situation. However Norway has a very low immigration rate.

miked 17y ago

I'm married to an immigrant (from China) and I and America are lucky to have her. Plenty of her fellow Chinese immigrant friends as well. On the other hand, since we're on the subject of Middle Eastern immigrants to Norway, here's something from Bruce Bawer, a gay American who moved to Norway to marry his partner: "Here in Oslo, a gay couple who were holding hands in the largely Muslim neighborhood of Grønland were physically assaulted by a man who told them: "This is a Muslim neighborhood." In a follow-up story, Dagbladet interviewed a local man, born in Pakistan but resident in Norway for ten years, who argues that "Grønland is a multicultural environment where there are many people who don't like homosexuals, so they shouldn't hold hands." He says such things are OK in west Oslo, where there are few Muslims, "but here in Grønland they shouldn't do it. Ideally, it should be forbidden to practice homosexuality in this area." http://memo.brucebawer.com/ http://memo.brucebawer.com/ What matters is the value system of those immigrants, and it keeps mattering regardless of how desperate the politically correct are for an external source of self-worth. (I'm not saying that's you. I am saying that it is a great many such people.)

delackner 17y ago
The problem you are describing is a result of ghetto-ization, both self-imposed (people like to live near their "fellows") and externally imposed (lack of a wide range of property values in an area leading naturally to income-segregation, with recent immigrants likely to end up stuck all together). If you solve the problem of income-segregation by somehow generating a city where rich and poor live side by side, then I think you go a long way to tackling the source of ghetto-formation, both for immigrants and the local poor. I have seen several cities where this has been achieved, though I have no idea why it occurs in one area and not another. I have a suspicion that it is tightly related to the density of development. A city with lots of skyscraper apartment blocks (both fancy and simple) can fit so many people in such a small area that even if the rich and poor live in different buildings, the buildings may be so close together that they share the same services (schools, hospitals, restaurants, etc). As a concrete example, I live a short 5 minute bicycle ride from a friend of mine. My 8 story apartment building has about 24 units, all of them relatively modest. My friend lives in a million dollar condo in a building with probably 30-40 units as well. This is in the very heart of the city.

numair 17y ago

There's a massive difference between the emigration of a very smart, talented person who is eager to assimilate and contribute to society, and immigration involving large numbers of people who are unskilled and have no intention of becoming part of mainstream society in your country. (And I say this as an immigrant)

michael_dorfman 17y ago
I'm also an immigrant (to Norway, actually), and I can tell you that it's quite difficult in practice to tell the difference-- it's not nearly as "massive" as you think.
- astine 17y ago
  In Norway anyway. In America the influx of hispanics is quite enormous. Most of them are hard workers and a net boon to our economy I think, but the demographic shift is quite astonishing.
- numair 17y ago
  I was in Oslo last week - there's large parts of town where it's quite easy to tell the difference. Anyway, this isn't the right forum for this discussion...
  - laut 17y ago
    I read in a Norwegian newspaper that a part of Oslo "Grønland", there was a guy who thought that Norwegians should follow certain muslim norms because it's a muslim neighborhood. This was in response to some people that had been assaulted in the neighborhood.
netsp 17y ago
Intention s irrelevant in the long rung. The only reason European politicians talk about it is because you can blame someone for intention.