4 ms·

Is it even possible to keep people from scabbing a service like Uber? There's no central place to go to work, so I can't imagine any kind of picket line situati

Is it even possible to keep people from scabbing a service like Uber? There's no central place to go to work, so I can't imagine any kind of picket line situation. How will a union maintain any kind of power when they can't control who goes in and out of a work site?

dsl 12y ago
Unions historically employed violence (or fear of violence) to prevent scabs because of the close ties to organized crime. Failing that, there is no real way that the union can avoid scabs. (Edited to clarify. Yes I acknowledge employers can be evil too, I assumed that was obvious.)
- yanowitz 12y ago
  Protecting picket lines is a strategy that goes back to the Chartist movement in England. The whole point of a picket line is to shut down production. Many early labor wars involved management hiring private armies that beat up and even shot strikers. Organized cribs involvement started during McCarthyism in particular (red scares more generally). When socialists (with a rank and file power perspective) were driven out, the vacuum left was filled by mobsters (in some cases).
- ArtB 12y ago
  ...as did factory owners. Is there a name for the logical fallacy where one knowingly misrepresents true statements to suggests things that aren't true? (ie that only unions used violence or had criminal ties).
  - graeme 12y ago
    I teach the LSAT. This fallacy occurs all the time. It's "incomplete comparison". Giving information about only one half of a comparison, then stating or implying a conclusion based on that inadequate information. It really, really fools people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incomplete_comparison http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incomplete_comparison
  - steve19 12y ago
    Yes, 100 years ago factory owners sure did (Ford being a classic example). More recently they have not. Low level violence is frequently applied by strike workers today. I once worked (white color job) for a shipping company and we had one strike every couple of years, sometimes more than one in a year (stevedore and sailors were both unionized so there would be two separate negotiations, each of which inevitably ended in a week or two week strike). Try driving through a picket line of stevedores and see what happens to your car. Actually don't, you will regret it. If they think you are a scab, you will be punched. If a hardcore unionist calls you a scab, be scared. Its the worst insult they know, and its backed by extreme hatred. As far as organized crime violence goes, I have no experience with that. I always assumed that was Sopranos fiction. Unionism has done good things, but I don't believe it has a place in a high tech industry. What Uber needs is solid competition so that drivers can simply defect to a competitor.
    - te_chris 12y ago
      Your position is privileged beyond belief. That you don't see that is both amusing and scary. Uber is not in the tech industry, they're in the taxi industry, driving cars. This us/them elitism is the scourge of the tech industry. Just pray you don't become as expendable as the drivers are.
    - smadge 12y ago
      > Unionism has done good things, but I don't believe it has a place in a high tech industry. Since when was driving a car a high tech industry? Every industry uses high tech, but that doesn't mean they should be subjected to Silicon Valley's poor labor practices.
tippytop 12y ago
Uber drivers aren't invisible. It wouldn't take much effort to use the app to flag one down, note the license plate, and give them a nice little talking to. I doubt many part-timers would stick with it if they thought there was a chance for trouble.
saalweachter 12y ago
It depends how much you can inconvenience Uber. Striking drivers don't need to shut down Uber to cause major problems. If a significant fraction of the drivers withhold their labor, then Uber won't be able to meet all of the demand for rides. Prices will go up, which will be great for scabs. But higher prices and less reliable service will discourage customers, which hurts both Uber's brand and bottom line.

dsl 12y ago

Unions historically employed violence (or fear of violence) to prevent scabs because of the close ties to organized crime. Failing that, there is no real way that the union can avoid scabs. (Edited to clarify. Yes I acknowledge employers can be evil too, I assumed that was obvious.)

yanowitz 12y ago
Protecting picket lines is a strategy that goes back to the Chartist movement in England. The whole point of a picket line is to shut down production. Many early labor wars involved management hiring private armies that beat up and even shot strikers. Organized cribs involvement started during McCarthyism in particular (red scares more generally). When socialists (with a rank and file power perspective) were driven out, the vacuum left was filled by mobsters (in some cases).
ArtB 12y ago
...as did factory owners. Is there a name for the logical fallacy where one knowingly misrepresents true statements to suggests things that aren't true? (ie that only unions used violence or had criminal ties).
- graeme 12y ago
  I teach the LSAT. This fallacy occurs all the time. It's "incomplete comparison". Giving information about only one half of a comparison, then stating or implying a conclusion based on that inadequate information. It really, really fools people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incomplete_comparison http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incomplete_comparison
- steve19 12y ago
  Yes, 100 years ago factory owners sure did (Ford being a classic example). More recently they have not. Low level violence is frequently applied by strike workers today. I once worked (white color job) for a shipping company and we had one strike every couple of years, sometimes more than one in a year (stevedore and sailors were both unionized so there would be two separate negotiations, each of which inevitably ended in a week or two week strike). Try driving through a picket line of stevedores and see what happens to your car. Actually don't, you will regret it. If they think you are a scab, you will be punched. If a hardcore unionist calls you a scab, be scared. Its the worst insult they know, and its backed by extreme hatred. As far as organized crime violence goes, I have no experience with that. I always assumed that was Sopranos fiction. Unionism has done good things, but I don't believe it has a place in a high tech industry. What Uber needs is solid competition so that drivers can simply defect to a competitor.
  - te_chris 12y ago
    Your position is privileged beyond belief. That you don't see that is both amusing and scary. Uber is not in the tech industry, they're in the taxi industry, driving cars. This us/them elitism is the scourge of the tech industry. Just pray you don't become as expendable as the drivers are.
  - smadge 12y ago
    > Unionism has done good things, but I don't believe it has a place in a high tech industry. Since when was driving a car a high tech industry? Every industry uses high tech, but that doesn't mean they should be subjected to Silicon Valley's poor labor practices.

tippytop 12y ago

Uber drivers aren't invisible. It wouldn't take much effort to use the app to flag one down, note the license plate, and give them a nice little talking to. I doubt many part-timers would stick with it if they thought there was a chance for trouble.

saalweachter 12y ago

It depends how much you can inconvenience Uber. Striking drivers don't need to shut down Uber to cause major problems. If a significant fraction of the drivers withhold their labor, then Uber won't be able to meet all of the demand for rides. Prices will go up, which will be great for scabs. But higher prices and less reliable service will discourage customers, which hurts both Uber's brand and bottom line.