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Transcription from comments on the site. Key Points 1. Removes windowing, unless you give youtube offers within reason (but what reason?). (Part 4/3b) 2. Goo

by nijiko 12y ago

Transcription from comments on the site. Key Points 1. Removes windowing, unless you give youtube offers within reason (but what reason?). (Part 4/3b) 2. Google forces you to offer them comparable offers. 3. Parts of the contract are Illegal in many countries. 4. Prevents future sales through multiple means. Major Paragraph: “Catalogue Commitment and Monetization. It is understood that as of the Effective Date and throughout the Term, Provider’s entire catalogue of Provider Sound Recordings and Provider Music Videos (including Provider Music Videos delivered via a third party) will be available for the Premium and Free Services for use in connection with each type of Relevant Content, (excluding AudioSwap Recordings, which will be at Provider’s option) and set to a default policy of Monetize for both the Premium and Free Services, except as otherwise set forth in this Agreement. Further, Provider will provide Google with the same Provider Sound Recordings and Provider Music Videos on the same day as it provides such content to any other similarly situated partners. The foregoing will be subject to reasonable quantity of limited-time exclusive promotional offers (in each case, with a single third party partner) (“Limited Exclusives”), as long as a) Provider provides Google with comparable exclusive promotional offers and b) the quantity and duration of such Limited Exclusives do not frustrate the intent of this Agreement.” Meaning: YouTube not only forces artists to make their entire catalogs available on its free service however, it also demands that it happens on release day, online AND off-line. This prevents future sales — i.e. YouTube users can now download all songs for free, which means there’s no need for anybody to buy music from iTunes anymore. Side notes: 3. Rate Change. To the extent that any major label agrees to any rates for the Google Services that are lower than the rates set forth in Exhibits C or D, including with respect to bundling, Google will have the right to reduce Provider’s analogous rates accordingly, following thirty (30) days written notice (via email will be sufficient) to Provider. Also, check below for some more in-depth links that convert to laymans more.

Mithaldu 12y ago
Another key point is that large parts of this contract are simply illegal in many parts of Europe.
- Spearchucker 12y ago
  Illegal is good because the courts can do something with that. Courts in Europe maybe not so much though. The antitrust case against Microsoft took five years, and even after that Microsoft "forgot" to include browser options with Windows for, I think it was another year. For an indie artist relying on music sales for bread and butter and paying the rent that's a virtual death sentence.
  - NamTaf 12y ago
    On the flipside, infinitely more happened in Europe than in the US during the same period regarding this.
magicalist 12y ago
> it also demands that it happens on release day No it doesn't. It says right there in what you quoted that it doesn't. > "The foregoing will be subject to reasonable quantity of limited-time exclusive promotional offers (in each case, with a single third party partner) (“Limited Exclusives”), as long as a) Provider provides Google with comparable exclusive promotional offers and b) the quantity and duration of such Limited Exclusives do not frustrate the intent of this Agreement." And AFAIK the common case of music labels is to license an entire catalog or not
- josephlord 12y ago
  Did you read the clause you quoted and actually think about what it means? 1) The time limited offer can only be with ONE single third party. 2) You must provide Google with comparable offers (when they might not be a suitable partner for comparable offers).
  - magicalist 12y ago
    Sure, but what it doesn't mean is that it "Removes windowing for artists", as was claimed. One problem with this whole discussion is that we have no previous contract to compare to. It's possible these are all new conditions or it's possible these are exactly the same clauses except with the subscription service mentioned. Edit: In fact, here's the iTunes similar clause: > "Except for a special circumstance, such as an exclusive, limited-time, one-off promotion for particular COMPANY Content, or for a reason beyond COMPANY’s control (e.g., a third party contractual restriction), or as otherwise agreed by the Parties, COMPANY (or a third party designated by COMPANY in writing and approved by ITUNES) shall commence delivery of all existing COMPANY Content as soon as reasonably possible following the Effective Date, and prospectively during the Term, for just cleared COMPANY Content and new releases, at least in time for ITUNES to begin selling eMasters the earlier of a general release date, provided by COMPANY, or when any other distributor is permitted to begin selling, or making commercially available, COMPANY Content in any format."[1] essentially, absent exclusive one-off promotions, all the company's music has to be provided to iTunes, and new music has to be made available on the general release date or when other distributors can start selling it, whichever is earlier. [1] http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/iTunes_Americas_-Music_v16.pdf?7ce4e4 http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/i...
cloudwalking 12y ago
"YouTube users can now download all songs for free, which means there’s no need for anybody to buy music from iTunes anymore" More like: Users can pay for a service that allows them to cache songs for offline playback in their YouTube app. It's not free and it's not like users are downloading the MP3s.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- swombat 12y ago
  It's easy to download any youtube as mp3 - try googling for it, there are multiple services that offer that for free. Anything on Youtube is basically free as mp3.
  - magicalist 12y ago
    The same thing exists for basically all the music streaming services, at least the ones that are in a browser. Edit: And in fact, this whole thread is kind of a red herring. We already had this same conversation about DRM, and it turned out people did indeed go to paid services when it's easy to use them. It turns out many millions of people will pay to stream music, even when there are many ways to get music for free for a little more effort. Same thing here. As far as I've heard, it's for offline listening, not download and have a file forever. The file will probably live in your youtube app and it will require breaking into it to get the music for free. I'm sure there will quickly be programs to do that, but most people won't care.
    - anoncow 12y ago
      Want to add an anecdote here. Even though there are multiple options to get free songs, I still renew my Nokia Mixradio (earlier Nokia Music) every quarter. It feels good to be a legitimate user and the convenience is welcome(if only mixradio+ with 320kbps downloads starts working, things would be perfect). So, if YouTube offers a similar well priced service, I would happily pay, regardless of if there was a free way to get that mp3/4. Dirt for Safari Books.
higherpurpose 12y ago
Those seem like great features for consumers.
anigbrowl 12y ago
Yeah, I'm a little mystified at how they get off demanding that labels make their entire catalog available. That seems like a contract of adhesion to me, in which one side leverages an enormous economic differential to impose unconscionable terms on counterparties - if you want to put anything on YouTube in hopes of monetizing it, you must put everything you have on there. I'm not expert on contract or antitrust law, but this seems like its sailing very close to the wind. I can see a consumer benefit argument for YouTube, but I can equally see an argument that it's just an incumbent entrenchment strategy designed to keep content providers locked in, a poison pill that prevents them entering into an exclusive arrangement with any other distributor.
noog 12y ago
Well, the "entire catalogue" refers only to the content on YouTube (not all the music the Provider has ever created, IIUC), if you look at the definition of "Provider Sound Recordings" and "Provider Music Videos" in Exhibit A.

by nijiko 12y ago

Mithaldu 12y ago

Another key point is that large parts of this contract are simply illegal in many parts of Europe.

Spearchucker 12y ago
Illegal is good because the courts can do something with that. Courts in Europe maybe not so much though. The antitrust case against Microsoft took five years, and even after that Microsoft "forgot" to include browser options with Windows for, I think it was another year. For an indie artist relying on music sales for bread and butter and paying the rent that's a virtual death sentence.
- NamTaf 12y ago
  On the flipside, infinitely more happened in Europe than in the US during the same period regarding this.

magicalist 12y ago

> it also demands that it happens on release day No it doesn't. It says right there in what you quoted that it doesn't. > "The foregoing will be subject to reasonable quantity of limited-time exclusive promotional offers (in each case, with a single third party partner) (“Limited Exclusives”), as long as a) Provider provides Google with comparable exclusive promotional offers and b) the quantity and duration of such Limited Exclusives do not frustrate the intent of this Agreement." And AFAIK the common case of music labels is to license an entire catalog or not

josephlord 12y ago
Did you read the clause you quoted and actually think about what it means? 1) The time limited offer can only be with ONE single third party. 2) You must provide Google with comparable offers (when they might not be a suitable partner for comparable offers).
- magicalist 12y ago
  Sure, but what it doesn't mean is that it "Removes windowing for artists", as was claimed. One problem with this whole discussion is that we have no previous contract to compare to. It's possible these are all new conditions or it's possible these are exactly the same clauses except with the subscription service mentioned. Edit: In fact, here's the iTunes similar clause: > "Except for a special circumstance, such as an exclusive, limited-time, one-off promotion for particular COMPANY Content, or for a reason beyond COMPANY’s control (e.g., a third party contractual restriction), or as otherwise agreed by the Parties, COMPANY (or a third party designated by COMPANY in writing and approved by ITUNES) shall commence delivery of all existing COMPANY Content as soon as reasonably possible following the Effective Date, and prospectively during the Term, for just cleared COMPANY Content and new releases, at least in time for ITUNES to begin selling eMasters the earlier of a general release date, provided by COMPANY, or when any other distributor is permitted to begin selling, or making commercially available, COMPANY Content in any format."[1] essentially, absent exclusive one-off promotions, all the company's music has to be provided to iTunes, and new music has to be made available on the general release date or when other distributors can start selling it, whichever is earlier. [1] http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/iTunes_Americas_-Music_v16.pdf?7ce4e4 http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/i...

cloudwalking 12y ago

"YouTube users can now download all songs for free, which means there’s no need for anybody to buy music from iTunes anymore" More like: Users can pay for a service that allows them to cache songs for offline playback in their YouTube app. It's not free and it's not like users are downloading the MP3s.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
swombat 12y ago
It's easy to download any youtube as mp3 - try googling for it, there are multiple services that offer that for free. Anything on Youtube is basically free as mp3.
- magicalist 12y ago
  The same thing exists for basically all the music streaming services, at least the ones that are in a browser. Edit: And in fact, this whole thread is kind of a red herring. We already had this same conversation about DRM, and it turned out people did indeed go to paid services when it's easy to use them. It turns out many millions of people will pay to stream music, even when there are many ways to get music for free for a little more effort. Same thing here. As far as I've heard, it's for offline listening, not download and have a file forever. The file will probably live in your youtube app and it will require breaking into it to get the music for free. I'm sure there will quickly be programs to do that, but most people won't care.
  - anoncow 12y ago
    Want to add an anecdote here. Even though there are multiple options to get free songs, I still renew my Nokia Mixradio (earlier Nokia Music) every quarter. It feels good to be a legitimate user and the convenience is welcome(if only mixradio+ with 320kbps downloads starts working, things would be perfect). So, if YouTube offers a similar well priced service, I would happily pay, regardless of if there was a free way to get that mp3/4. Dirt for Safari Books.

higherpurpose 12y ago

Those seem like great features for consumers.

anigbrowl 12y ago

Yeah, I'm a little mystified at how they get off demanding that labels make their entire catalog available. That seems like a contract of adhesion to me, in which one side leverages an enormous economic differential to impose unconscionable terms on counterparties - if you want to put anything on YouTube in hopes of monetizing it, you must put everything you have on there. I'm not expert on contract or antitrust law, but this seems like its sailing very close to the wind. I can see a consumer benefit argument for YouTube, but I can equally see an argument that it's just an incumbent entrenchment strategy designed to keep content providers locked in, a poison pill that prevents them entering into an exclusive arrangement with any other distributor.

noog 12y ago

Well, the "entire catalogue" refers only to the content on YouTube (not all the music the Provider has ever created, IIUC), if you look at the definition of "Provider Sound Recordings" and "Provider Music Videos" in Exhibit A.