5 ms·

>can these companies really not get productive work of a slightly broader group? Relative to the 1/100 resumes-- if your friend took the time to dig deeper, he

>can these companies really not get productive work of a slightly broader group? Relative to the 1/100 resumes-- if your friend took the time to dig deeper, he'd likely spot 2-3 diamonds in the rough, a moneyball misfit. If your friend is like most senior managers, he'll scoff at the idea-- 'I'm too busy to read 100 resumes' he'll likely say, or 'that's HRs job!' Finding & attracting talent is a mission critical competency that senior leadership must drive. Too often it's delegated to mid-tier management that don't share the same sense of urgency. It takes an exceptionally rare manager who can assess and train-up mediocre talent into A-Player status. Fewer still, who have the guts to make a trial hire. A bad hire can be costly on a variety of levels. But most guys would rather play it safe-- blame HR, lack of bandwidth, or the market. Meanwhile, the guys who figure it out manage to scale.

toomuchtodo 12y ago
It could be a resources problem. The company I'm about to leave wanted me to find 24x7 on-call DevOps folks for $70K/piece (Chicago). I told them $100K/year was the floor for quality people and they balked. Finding talent isn't the only challenge. Incentivizing them to join and stay is equally challenging.
- JSeymourATL 12y ago
  Limited budget demands that you, get creative and dig-deeper still. Could a local QA guy get the job done in a pinch? Will your Ops support someone working remotely, even off-shore? Economical solutions require some flexibility.
  - csixty4 12y ago
    You're looking at this too rationally. That's not meant as snark. The people responsible for these requirements aren't acting rationally. They want Bill Gates, Microsoft CEO for the price of Bill Gates, Harvard Freshman. And if they can't find that person, they complain there's a shortage of good candidates.
    - toomuchtodo 12y ago
      Correct!
  - toomuchtodo 12y ago
    Excellent points. > Could a local QA guy get the job done in a pinch? No. The requirement from management was that they were a Linux|Network|Sys/Admin or DevOps resource. > Will your Ops support someone working remotely, even off-shore? No. They were required to be in our office in the Chicago West Loop daily. TL;DR My org wanted to pay below market rates yet still dictate shoot-the-moon requirements.
    - stevekemp 12y ago
      > TL;DR My org wanted to pay below market rates yet still dictate shoot-the-moon requirements. I've been on the receiving end of this numerous times "Oh, we know we can't pay what you're used to, but thought you might like a challenging environment ..?" These days I've stopped accepting interviews unless the recruiter/company will share a salary range in advance of technical questions. (You'd be amazed how many places advertise with "Salary: Competitive", and no firm figure/range.)
- illini123 12y ago
  Given the Chicago reference (fellow Chicagoan here), do you view this as a Midwest problem? I feel like a lot of the companies here tend to lowball on salaries / benefits. I did a study on this for the VC / startup communities in the Midwest, and we think we have enough data to back it up.
  - alphagenerator 12y ago
    Is your data available to the public? I'd settle for some basic summary statistics.
    - illini123 12y ago
      Sure, feel free to skim: http://worldbusinesschicago.com/techcluster http://worldbusinesschicago.com/techcluster Some context: My roommate and I led this during grad school for the City of Chicago and a bunch of VCs / startup community around the Midwest. We looked primarily at ag-tech, health-tech / life sciences, and advanced manufacturing. Then, we looked at the supposed "brain drain" where we educate all these kids here in the Midwest and then they leave for the coasts. The pundits just want to say "We need more STEM! Argh!" Truth: We don't pay employees enough to stay, even with differences in cost-of-living, and the startups here are under-funded, tackle low-level problems, and Chicago is run by a cartel of private equity / consultants-turned-VCs. I'm trying to launch a startup in Chicago in data analytics, and it's tough. All the startups here that get publicity don't solve any problems. I'm sorry, but Groupon and GrubHub? Seriously? That's the best you can do? I don't know what your thoughts on this are, but I'd actually love to listen to someone else vent if you're in Chicago. Trying to find a co-founder has been rough, since you tell people you're doing something other than digital tech and get a blank stare.
      - alphagenerator 12y ago
        I've only recently started investigating Chicago as a place to startup anything, but I'm not looking in the sectors where you are looking. I don't have any frustrations to vent; I like the midwest. I like to believe the midwest is actually a better place to do a startup than NYC or SF primarily because the cost to bootstrap is much lower here. What about just building your prototype in the midwest and taking it to the coast for funding? I don't feel like capital is really confined to specific regions anymore, and Chicago is only a 3-hour flight from NYC.

toomuchtodo 12y ago

It could be a resources problem. The company I'm about to leave wanted me to find 24x7 on-call DevOps folks for $70K/piece (Chicago). I told them $100K/year was the floor for quality people and they balked. Finding talent isn't the only challenge. Incentivizing them to join and stay is equally challenging.

JSeymourATL 12y ago
Limited budget demands that you, get creative and dig-deeper still. Could a local QA guy get the job done in a pinch? Will your Ops support someone working remotely, even off-shore? Economical solutions require some flexibility.
- csixty4 12y ago
  You're looking at this too rationally. That's not meant as snark. The people responsible for these requirements aren't acting rationally. They want Bill Gates, Microsoft CEO for the price of Bill Gates, Harvard Freshman. And if they can't find that person, they complain there's a shortage of good candidates.
  - toomuchtodo 12y ago
    Correct!
- toomuchtodo 12y ago
  Excellent points. > Could a local QA guy get the job done in a pinch? No. The requirement from management was that they were a Linux|Network|Sys/Admin or DevOps resource. > Will your Ops support someone working remotely, even off-shore? No. They were required to be in our office in the Chicago West Loop daily. TL;DR My org wanted to pay below market rates yet still dictate shoot-the-moon requirements.
  - stevekemp 12y ago
    > TL;DR My org wanted to pay below market rates yet still dictate shoot-the-moon requirements. I've been on the receiving end of this numerous times "Oh, we know we can't pay what you're used to, but thought you might like a challenging environment ..?" These days I've stopped accepting interviews unless the recruiter/company will share a salary range in advance of technical questions. (You'd be amazed how many places advertise with "Salary: Competitive", and no firm figure/range.)
illini123 12y ago
Given the Chicago reference (fellow Chicagoan here), do you view this as a Midwest problem? I feel like a lot of the companies here tend to lowball on salaries / benefits. I did a study on this for the VC / startup communities in the Midwest, and we think we have enough data to back it up.
- alphagenerator 12y ago
  Is your data available to the public? I'd settle for some basic summary statistics.
  - illini123 12y ago
    Sure, feel free to skim: http://worldbusinesschicago.com/techcluster http://worldbusinesschicago.com/techcluster Some context: My roommate and I led this during grad school for the City of Chicago and a bunch of VCs / startup community around the Midwest. We looked primarily at ag-tech, health-tech / life sciences, and advanced manufacturing. Then, we looked at the supposed "brain drain" where we educate all these kids here in the Midwest and then they leave for the coasts. The pundits just want to say "We need more STEM! Argh!" Truth: We don't pay employees enough to stay, even with differences in cost-of-living, and the startups here are under-funded, tackle low-level problems, and Chicago is run by a cartel of private equity / consultants-turned-VCs. I'm trying to launch a startup in Chicago in data analytics, and it's tough. All the startups here that get publicity don't solve any problems. I'm sorry, but Groupon and GrubHub? Seriously? That's the best you can do? I don't know what your thoughts on this are, but I'd actually love to listen to someone else vent if you're in Chicago. Trying to find a co-founder has been rough, since you tell people you're doing something other than digital tech and get a blank stare.
    - alphagenerator 12y ago
      I've only recently started investigating Chicago as a place to startup anything, but I'm not looking in the sectors where you are looking. I don't have any frustrations to vent; I like the midwest. I like to believe the midwest is actually a better place to do a startup than NYC or SF primarily because the cost to bootstrap is much lower here. What about just building your prototype in the midwest and taking it to the coast for funding? I don't feel like capital is really confined to specific regions anymore, and Chicago is only a 3-hour flight from NYC.