4 ms·

If someone wants to create a start-up that will really help teachers to teach tech, they'll find a way to help teachers bypass their local IT departments in an

by jnbiche 12y ago

If someone wants to create a start-up that will really help teachers to teach tech, they'll find a way to help teachers bypass their local IT departments in an acceptable manner. I know of multiple school districts that are absolutely plagued by overzealous IT admins, including the director, who lock down teacher and student computers to the point where they're unable to install or use the software they need to learn or login to all these cool educational services that use Google or Facebook login. Watching educational YouTube videos? That's not even open for discussion. They're totally blocked from learning. Funny thing is: the kids all know how to get around these blocks, but the teachers don't dare do it for fear of losing their job. This on top of the fact that these schools' LANs fail on a regular basis, including when students are taking computer-based standardized tests. So teachers spend hours each week filing bug reports and calling IT to get these sites unblocked, software installed, or LAN/wifi back up. Most people here wouldn't believe what is going on in many school districts because of overzealous and incompetent IT admins. It's a structural problem in at least 3 states I'm familiar with (all of them low-performing states on standard tests). Maybe build a "screened" portal to educational sites (including ones with YouTube videos) and software? But it would have to be accompanied by some serious lobbying towards the IT folks to whitelist it.

MarcScott 12y ago
I have an excellent technician at my school who manages to be as flexible as possible, while keeping within the bounds of school policies. We've now setup OpenStack on a server, and are in position to give every student in the school their own Linux VPS next year. They'll ssh in using putty, have full admin rights to their instance, be able to apt-get whatever they like and all of a sudden the IT policies of the school no longer apply. I'm suddenly really looking forward to teaching Computing next year.
- jnbiche 12y ago
  >I have an excellent technician at my school who manages to be as flexible as possible, while keeping within the bounds of school policies. You're very fortunate. I'm guessing you're probably in a high-performing, relatively well-to-do school district (please correct me if I'm wrong). >and are in position to give every student in the school their own Linux VPS next year. The IT depts at the schools I'm familiar with (through friends, I'm not a teacher myself) wouldn't even know what OpenStack is. They're 100% Microsoft shops. And the idea of giving a student root access to his/her own virtual instance would simultaneously blow the IT staffs' mind, terrify, and enrage them.
  - techadv 12y ago
    I serve on a tech advisory committee for a local school district. I am unforgiving on a single point: students need access to a development environment -- or at least the ability to install software -- or else these computers are just consumables. I've suggested numerous setups to get around all of the excuses tech people at the district give. Would you mind sharing personal contact info for either yourself or your IT staff so that I can go to administration with a "this works in practice, here, go see" argument?
    - MarcScott 12y ago
      My domain is coding2learn and my first name is marc, so feel free to email me and I can put you in touch with my net admin. Alternatively I'm @coding2learn on Twitter, so we can DM if you like. We're starting the whole OpenStack/Linux experiment in September, so I can't give you concrete evidence that it works yet, although I can't see any issues at present.
  - MarcScott 12y ago
    >You're very fortunate. I'm guessing you're probably in a high-performing, relatively well-to-do school district (please correct me if I'm wrong). You're 100% correct. I work in a UK grammar school, so we have a predominantly middle-class catchment area, and students are selected on academic ability. TBH I didn't know what OpenStack was a few months ago. I went to my tech, after issues with running Python on the network, and explained that I wanted the kids to have root access to 'something'. I wanted them to play around with a CLI and be able to explore different tools. We explored RaspberryPis with KVMs, dual booting and paying for VPSs from a third party. My Tech did his research and came up with the OpenStack solution. My point was that these things are possible, but I agree that to many IT admins the concept is terrifying. The sad thing is that offering students such an experience is well within the budgets and technical capabilities of all schools in the UK.
  - dublinben 12y ago
    > They're 100% Microsoft shops I think this is a bigger problem than most people realize. Expensive proprietary software has no place in education. It is antithetical to the students' interests in learning, and it inherently prevents them from tinkering. Techies with children entering the public education system really need to push for a wholesale transition to open source. If it's good enough for the office, it's good enough for schools.
- XorNot 12y ago
  I'm curious how you're accomplishing this: VM instances or LXC/Docker?
  - MarcScott 12y ago
    VMs. We're learning as we go along though, so if other solutions are preferable, I'm open to suggestions.
incision 12y ago
I've worked with and for a time within a few different public school systems. >'I know of multiple school districts that are absolutely plagued by overzealous IT admins, including the director, who lock down teacher and student computers to the point where they're unable to install or use the software they need to learn...' Locking down desktops is a pretty basic part of successfully managing more than a handful of them, particularly when they're distributed across an entire county. Obviously, there should be a better process for identifying and distributing (in a controlled manner) the software that will benefit these classes, but handing out administrative rights isn't likely a realistic option. >'Watching educational YouTube videos? That's not even open for discussion.' The reasons for this should be obvious and you allude to it just below. As soon as one of the kids catches a glimpse of some cleavage in a recommended video or YT pre-rolls an ad featuring a girl in a bikini the system is looking at a lawsuit, the teacher - unemployment. >'Most people here wouldn't believe what is going on in many school districts because of overzealous and incompetent IT admins.' It's a bit much to pile this on the admins. In my experience, those jobs don't pay enough to attract/keep the level of talent they need nor are they given the autonomy to effect change on their own. I think it's right to call it a structural problem, one with a whole slew of factors. To name a few... * Vendors abusing E-Rate funds and the like to oversell districts on things they can't afford to maintain or properly utilize. * The wacky funding schedules of school systems. They tend to get lump sums for 'modernization' and the like, but are restricted from spending it on services with recurring costs or technical hands to run them. * Individual schools run like fiefdoms which work against centralizing for efficiency. A notable example of this from my own experience is project which could have served an entire county of 100+ schools for well under <$1M being dashed in favor of a grossly inferior, $50k per school solution. * Super parents pushing their own agendas and self-interest. It's not at all uncommon for someone who coincidentally works for a particular vendor to decide that the vendor they work for is the only viable solution for the district and raise hell until they get their way. * Inability to retain qualified help. IT people who want to get paid don't work in education. Experienced IT people who want to work in education anyway know to avoid primary education and aim at colleges and the numerous benefits like free-rides for their own children.
- jnbiche 12y ago
  >It's a bit much to pile this on the admins. In my experience, those jobs don't pay enough to attract/keep the level of talent they need nor are they given the autonomy to effect change on their own. I agree with you here. What I wrote there was careless -- I meant to lay most of the blame squarely at the feet of the overzealous and incompetent district IT directors and their staff. I wrote "admins" when I was thinking of the people in charge. The mostly incompetent admins certainly don't help but they aren't at the root of the problem. You're correct that it's hard to attract competent help at the salaries public school districts pay. And based on my friends' experiences, I agree with your list of structural problems. The 'super parents' doesn't apply as much since they're working in poor districts where many families are fragmented and uninvolved. But otherwise, I'd say you're spot on. I do strongly disagree with your view on locking down computers to such an extent, particularly your view on handing out admin rights. When a teacher is teaching a computer science class that requires installing new libraries and executable every other week, they should be given admin rights or else the computer pre-installed with all needed programs (that never happens in my friends' schools). They can't even follow a nationally standardized curriculum due to their IT depts' obstructionism, not only because they can't get the right software installed, but also because their kids can't access the various Google-related projects (i.e, Google docs) since all Google logins are blacklisted. It's absolutely ridiculous and it infuriates me. These are motivated teachers who want to teach students who desperately need to learn, and they're being actively blocked by their own district policies. It's maddening for me to hear about these things. Ideally, they'd be given root accounts on Linux machines as in MarcScott's enlightened district, but I think my friends would be happy to just get Python installed on their kids' computers.
callmeed 12y ago
What about a 4G/wifi hotspot that completely bypasses the school's network? You could subsidize it by sharing usage data, which could be compiled to generate "most popular" lists and tied to curriculum components.

by jnbiche 12y ago

MarcScott 12y ago

I have an excellent technician at my school who manages to be as flexible as possible, while keeping within the bounds of school policies. We've now setup OpenStack on a server, and are in position to give every student in the school their own Linux VPS next year. They'll ssh in using putty, have full admin rights to their instance, be able to apt-get whatever they like and all of a sudden the IT policies of the school no longer apply. I'm suddenly really looking forward to teaching Computing next year.

jnbiche 12y ago
>I have an excellent technician at my school who manages to be as flexible as possible, while keeping within the bounds of school policies. You're very fortunate. I'm guessing you're probably in a high-performing, relatively well-to-do school district (please correct me if I'm wrong). >and are in position to give every student in the school their own Linux VPS next year. The IT depts at the schools I'm familiar with (through friends, I'm not a teacher myself) wouldn't even know what OpenStack is. They're 100% Microsoft shops. And the idea of giving a student root access to his/her own virtual instance would simultaneously blow the IT staffs' mind, terrify, and enrage them.
- techadv 12y ago
  I serve on a tech advisory committee for a local school district. I am unforgiving on a single point: students need access to a development environment -- or at least the ability to install software -- or else these computers are just consumables. I've suggested numerous setups to get around all of the excuses tech people at the district give. Would you mind sharing personal contact info for either yourself or your IT staff so that I can go to administration with a "this works in practice, here, go see" argument?
  - MarcScott 12y ago
    My domain is coding2learn and my first name is marc, so feel free to email me and I can put you in touch with my net admin. Alternatively I'm @coding2learn on Twitter, so we can DM if you like. We're starting the whole OpenStack/Linux experiment in September, so I can't give you concrete evidence that it works yet, although I can't see any issues at present.
- MarcScott 12y ago
  >You're very fortunate. I'm guessing you're probably in a high-performing, relatively well-to-do school district (please correct me if I'm wrong). You're 100% correct. I work in a UK grammar school, so we have a predominantly middle-class catchment area, and students are selected on academic ability. TBH I didn't know what OpenStack was a few months ago. I went to my tech, after issues with running Python on the network, and explained that I wanted the kids to have root access to 'something'. I wanted them to play around with a CLI and be able to explore different tools. We explored RaspberryPis with KVMs, dual booting and paying for VPSs from a third party. My Tech did his research and came up with the OpenStack solution. My point was that these things are possible, but I agree that to many IT admins the concept is terrifying. The sad thing is that offering students such an experience is well within the budgets and technical capabilities of all schools in the UK.
- dublinben 12y ago
  > They're 100% Microsoft shops I think this is a bigger problem than most people realize. Expensive proprietary software has no place in education. It is antithetical to the students' interests in learning, and it inherently prevents them from tinkering. Techies with children entering the public education system really need to push for a wholesale transition to open source. If it's good enough for the office, it's good enough for schools.
XorNot 12y ago
I'm curious how you're accomplishing this: VM instances or LXC/Docker?
- MarcScott 12y ago
  VMs. We're learning as we go along though, so if other solutions are preferable, I'm open to suggestions.

incision 12y ago

I've worked with and for a time within a few different public school systems. >'I know of multiple school districts that are absolutely plagued by overzealous IT admins, including the director, who lock down teacher and student computers to the point where they're unable to install or use the software they need to learn...' Locking down desktops is a pretty basic part of successfully managing more than a handful of them, particularly when they're distributed across an entire county. Obviously, there should be a better process for identifying and distributing (in a controlled manner) the software that will benefit these classes, but handing out administrative rights isn't likely a realistic option. >'Watching educational YouTube videos? That's not even open for discussion.' The reasons for this should be obvious and you allude to it just below. As soon as one of the kids catches a glimpse of some cleavage in a recommended video or YT pre-rolls an ad featuring a girl in a bikini the system is looking at a lawsuit, the teacher - unemployment. >'Most people here wouldn't believe what is going on in many school districts because of overzealous and incompetent IT admins.' It's a bit much to pile this on the admins. In my experience, those jobs don't pay enough to attract/keep the level of talent they need nor are they given the autonomy to effect change on their own. I think it's right to call it a structural problem, one with a whole slew of factors. To name a few... * Vendors abusing E-Rate funds and the like to oversell districts on things they can't afford to maintain or properly utilize. * The wacky funding schedules of school systems. They tend to get lump sums for 'modernization' and the like, but are restricted from spending it on services with recurring costs or technical hands to run them. * Individual schools run like fiefdoms which work against centralizing for efficiency. A notable example of this from my own experience is project which could have served an entire county of 100+ schools for well under <$1M being dashed in favor of a grossly inferior, $50k per school solution. * Super parents pushing their own agendas and self-interest. It's not at all uncommon for someone who coincidentally works for a particular vendor to decide that the vendor they work for is the only viable solution for the district and raise hell until they get their way. * Inability to retain qualified help. IT people who want to get paid don't work in education. Experienced IT people who want to work in education anyway know to avoid primary education and aim at colleges and the numerous benefits like free-rides for their own children.

jnbiche 12y ago
>It's a bit much to pile this on the admins. In my experience, those jobs don't pay enough to attract/keep the level of talent they need nor are they given the autonomy to effect change on their own. I agree with you here. What I wrote there was careless -- I meant to lay most of the blame squarely at the feet of the overzealous and incompetent district IT directors and their staff. I wrote "admins" when I was thinking of the people in charge. The mostly incompetent admins certainly don't help but they aren't at the root of the problem. You're correct that it's hard to attract competent help at the salaries public school districts pay. And based on my friends' experiences, I agree with your list of structural problems. The 'super parents' doesn't apply as much since they're working in poor districts where many families are fragmented and uninvolved. But otherwise, I'd say you're spot on. I do strongly disagree with your view on locking down computers to such an extent, particularly your view on handing out admin rights. When a teacher is teaching a computer science class that requires installing new libraries and executable every other week, they should be given admin rights or else the computer pre-installed with all needed programs (that never happens in my friends' schools). They can't even follow a nationally standardized curriculum due to their IT depts' obstructionism, not only because they can't get the right software installed, but also because their kids can't access the various Google-related projects (i.e, Google docs) since all Google logins are blacklisted. It's absolutely ridiculous and it infuriates me. These are motivated teachers who want to teach students who desperately need to learn, and they're being actively blocked by their own district policies. It's maddening for me to hear about these things. Ideally, they'd be given root accounts on Linux machines as in MarcScott's enlightened district, but I think my friends would be happy to just get Python installed on their kids' computers.

callmeed 12y ago

What about a 4G/wifi hotspot that completely bypasses the school's network? You could subsidize it by sharing usage data, which could be compiled to generate "most popular" lists and tied to curriculum components.