4 ms·

"creates a predatory private market for public parking spaces that San Franciscans will not tolerate" Right, because I've never driven around Nob Hill for an h

by derwiki 12y ago

"creates a predatory private market for public parking spaces that San Franciscans will not tolerate" Right, because I've never driven around Nob Hill for an hour trying to find parking, only to have to give up and pay $25 for a garage. The response from the city makes more sense if you've never actually had to do street parking in the city. When I'm at my wit's end, driving around the same streets continuously, I'd gladly have paid $7 for a spot. Have the time you don't even find a spot, you find someone leaving and take the spot immediately.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
untog 12y ago
What about people who can't pay $7? That's what public services need to think about.
- jerf 12y ago
  How much does a parking meter cost in San Francisco normally? (Honest question, since I don't live anywhere near there.) Frankly, if private prices for parking spaces really did start to soar, that would be an Enormous Clue for the city, though I fully trust them to bitch about the market long before they actually listen to it. (And by "listen" to it, I do not mean "mindlessly obey it"... I mean, listen to it. It would be trying to tell you something. Perhaps something you already know, but with fresh volume and urgency. But, of course, far better to just crucify the market, then live in a world of myth and mystery where things Just Happen and The Rich are mysteriously behind every bush and every lamppost keeping down The Good People via entirely mysterious and inscrutable magic mechanisms that can never be studied or understood by Good People lest they become Tainted and Unclean....)
  - marcuskaz 12y ago
    Parking varies greatly throughout the city. If you are downtown, it is really difficult to find a spot at all, so garages are usually the main option. Garage runs around $2 for 20 minutes, but then rate declines over more time with typically a $20 cap. If you do find a street spot, its probably metered which now has adjustable rates depending on location and time. A meter will run about $1 for 15 minutes, but no upper cap and most of time limits. If you get out of downtown, there is street parking in most neighborhoods for free, but typically with 2-hour limits, permit zones or weird street cleaning hours which if you leave it there you will get towed. The app will probably benefit the neighborhoods the most, since a free spot with no street cleaning the next day is a gold mine.
- freehunter 12y ago
  Other than the money going to private companies rather than the city, how is it any different from a parking meter? In my city, there are no parking spots that are walking distance from downtown that do not cost money to use.
danielweber 12y ago
It's easy to see this as a foolish reaction of "there is a market? But markets are unfair because money, so let's stop it!" by the city of San Fran. In fact, it would take remarkably little to make me believe San Fran was that foolish. However, these apps also create incentives for people to not give up their spots until someone pays. It's an incomplete market, where someone sits on a shared resource until paid to move. The reality is that SF should be auctioning off these spots on its own. Let the market decide what the price of parking is, and pay the supplier.
- rayiner 12y ago
  > However, these apps also create incentives for people to not give up their spots until someone pays. It's an incomplete market, where someone sits on a shared resource until paid to move. This analysis is totally on point and I'm shocked someone downvoted you.
- bkmartin 12y ago
  Why "should" SF be auctioning off these spots? To maximize revenue? Is that why public services exist? Are they doing a larger disservice to the people of SF by NOT auctioning them off, thus raising the price to park, over having a lower price solution to $25 parking garages? Maybe SF should build a couple of public parking garages themselves if they, as a public service, wish to continue to offer more affordable public parking. The residents of the city need affordable parking. Unless, their goal is to get less people to drive in the city and take public transit. There are so many factors at play here. So many agendas and concerns. So I repeat my question... for what reasons "should" SF auction off the spots? What are its ramifications? I have no skin in the game, I'm just an east coaster. These issues are hardly ever so cut and dry as to whether a market exists or not.
  - derwiki 12y ago
    When I had my car in the city, I took public transit every chance I could because I didn't dare lose my parking spot. I only used the car for out of town trips. Then I realized how ridiculous it was to own a car that I was stressed out to use. I switched to Zipcar and never looked back (in fact, my local Zipcar garage is closer than how far away I normally had to park).

by derwiki 12y ago

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

untog 12y ago

What about people who can't pay $7? That's what public services need to think about.

jerf 12y ago
How much does a parking meter cost in San Francisco normally? (Honest question, since I don't live anywhere near there.) Frankly, if private prices for parking spaces really did start to soar, that would be an Enormous Clue for the city, though I fully trust them to bitch about the market long before they actually listen to it. (And by "listen" to it, I do not mean "mindlessly obey it"... I mean, listen to it. It would be trying to tell you something. Perhaps something you already know, but with fresh volume and urgency. But, of course, far better to just crucify the market, then live in a world of myth and mystery where things Just Happen and The Rich are mysteriously behind every bush and every lamppost keeping down The Good People via entirely mysterious and inscrutable magic mechanisms that can never be studied or understood by Good People lest they become Tainted and Unclean....)
- marcuskaz 12y ago
  Parking varies greatly throughout the city. If you are downtown, it is really difficult to find a spot at all, so garages are usually the main option. Garage runs around $2 for 20 minutes, but then rate declines over more time with typically a $20 cap. If you do find a street spot, its probably metered which now has adjustable rates depending on location and time. A meter will run about $1 for 15 minutes, but no upper cap and most of time limits. If you get out of downtown, there is street parking in most neighborhoods for free, but typically with 2-hour limits, permit zones or weird street cleaning hours which if you leave it there you will get towed. The app will probably benefit the neighborhoods the most, since a free spot with no street cleaning the next day is a gold mine.
freehunter 12y ago
Other than the money going to private companies rather than the city, how is it any different from a parking meter? In my city, there are no parking spots that are walking distance from downtown that do not cost money to use.

danielweber 12y ago

It's easy to see this as a foolish reaction of "there is a market? But markets are unfair because money, so let's stop it!" by the city of San Fran. In fact, it would take remarkably little to make me believe San Fran was that foolish. However, these apps also create incentives for people to not give up their spots until someone pays. It's an incomplete market, where someone sits on a shared resource until paid to move. The reality is that SF should be auctioning off these spots on its own. Let the market decide what the price of parking is, and pay the supplier.

rayiner 12y ago
> However, these apps also create incentives for people to not give up their spots until someone pays. It's an incomplete market, where someone sits on a shared resource until paid to move. This analysis is totally on point and I'm shocked someone downvoted you.
bkmartin 12y ago
Why "should" SF be auctioning off these spots? To maximize revenue? Is that why public services exist? Are they doing a larger disservice to the people of SF by NOT auctioning them off, thus raising the price to park, over having a lower price solution to $25 parking garages? Maybe SF should build a couple of public parking garages themselves if they, as a public service, wish to continue to offer more affordable public parking. The residents of the city need affordable parking. Unless, their goal is to get less people to drive in the city and take public transit. There are so many factors at play here. So many agendas and concerns. So I repeat my question... for what reasons "should" SF auction off the spots? What are its ramifications? I have no skin in the game, I'm just an east coaster. These issues are hardly ever so cut and dry as to whether a market exists or not.
- derwiki 12y ago
  When I had my car in the city, I took public transit every chance I could because I didn't dare lose my parking spot. I only used the car for out of town trips. Then I realized how ridiculous it was to own a car that I was stressed out to use. I switched to Zipcar and never looked back (in fact, my local Zipcar garage is closer than how far away I normally had to park).