5 ms·

I'd say even if you're trying to be a good driver in this situation, your eyes are going to "glaze over" after 1 hour of staring at lines and occasional other c

I'd say even if you're trying to be a good driver in this situation, your eyes are going to "glaze over" after 1 hour of staring at lines and occasional other cars without using the wheel or pedals. If this is true (and I'll grant it's a fairly big "if"), then this product would effectively impair the driver even more! Are we really that confident that the technology is good enough to lower crash/injury rates, even with zoned-out drivers? Perhaps it's trading one type of crash, for other crashes that are less harmful overall, but do we know? I'd heard of this kind of fatigue before, and just now pulled up an article abstract[0] in search results. It says "analytical results indicated that 80 min was the safe limit for monotonous highway driving." Highway driving would be even more monotonous with this product. I'l grant that this may not be very solid scientific citation and reasoning here, but it seems like nearly common sense, that a driver can't remain alert for hours on end with a computer doing all his work. [0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0031938408000681?np=y https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S003193840...

SomeCallMeTim 12y ago
I have a three-hour drive I make twice a week. I can second the motion of "glazed-over" eyes. But let me tell you: When the "collision avoidance alarm" fired mistakenly once, I was VERY AWAKE for the next half hour. Assuming the sensors are good, and that they include failsafes that will let you know right away when they AREN'T working, it absolutely would be a net positive to have something else watch during the "boring" times and then let out a loud "Red Alert!" buzz as soon as something unexpected came along. So no, I don't think the driver would be "impaired even more," at least not if the sensors worked well enough to throw an alarm if something unexpected happened. A set of sensors on top of a car should have a better view of the surroundings than a human, and wouldn't suffer from that kind of fatigue at all. More, the human is not going to be hypnotized by the road if they aren't actively driving. As a passenger my eyes frequently check out the scenery; as a driver you're forced to watch the road nearly 100% of the time. P.S. in my drive, I tend to pull over at the halfway point, so after about 90 minutes. And last night that did feel like about 10-15 minutes too long.
- prawn 12y ago
  What about an AI that asked you questions (especially about your surroundings and the environment ahead of you) and generally engaged you to stay awake? Even an audio-only version of Duolingo that taught and tested you so you felt productive rather than as though you were wasting time with a prattling AI?
  - SomeCallMeTim 12y ago
    Nice ideas, actually. Yeah, I'd consider that. You have to be sure that whatever it is doesn't engage any "spacial" thinking, however. I remember reading about studies that demonstrated that giving people visual descriptions or 3d puzzles was more distracting than other kinds of thinking while driving. While I sometimes just want to relax, there are times when I'm feeling I COULD be productive if there were something I could do that didn't involve my hands or eyes. :) One thing I've done is to talk into a voice recorder. But there is only so long I can talk about an idea in a useful manner.
    - prawn 12y ago
      Yes, interjecting with questions about the road, traffic in the area, terrain ahead and so on could be helpful if it wasn't too repetitive. I think it would have to be personable and engaging ("Her"-style) to be really effective.
tlrobinson 12y ago
It seems like eye tracking and "hands on the steering wheel" sensors would solve this.
aidenn0 12y ago
> Highway driving would be even more monotonous with this product I suspect it would actually be the opposite. If you can take your eyes off the road for say 15-20s every 15 minutes or so, the drive is much less monotonous, and likely safer.
- scintill76 12y ago
  Yeah, others have had some good counterpoints on this too. Maybe another argument with the same point, is that you can't be ready to drive at any moment if you're gawking at the scenery, etc.? (Or is the system actually going to be able to drive certain routes with a "driver" who can allow themselves to not think about driving at all?) It seems like at some point there would be a qualitative change in the mental processes, where you're effectively not alert to driving, even if you think "I'm only looking away every few minutes." At least if you have been driving for years, where "driving" = "re-evaluating road and vehicle conditions every 3-5 seconds and reacting appropriately." Maybe it should be thought of as learning a new skill, passive driving.
kalleboo 12y ago
> I'l grant that this may not be very solid scientific citation and reasoning here, but it seems like nearly common sense, that a driver can't remain alert for hours on end with a computer doing all his work. There may be lessons to learn from pilots here. There are countless reports of pilots falling asleep in the cockpit while the autopilot is in control of the plane.
- tim333 12y ago
  Although it still seems safer in spite of that

SomeCallMeTim 12y ago

I have a three-hour drive I make twice a week. I can second the motion of "glazed-over" eyes. But let me tell you: When the "collision avoidance alarm" fired mistakenly once, I was VERY AWAKE for the next half hour. Assuming the sensors are good, and that they include failsafes that will let you know right away when they AREN'T working, it absolutely would be a net positive to have something else watch during the "boring" times and then let out a loud "Red Alert!" buzz as soon as something unexpected came along. So no, I don't think the driver would be "impaired even more," at least not if the sensors worked well enough to throw an alarm if something unexpected happened. A set of sensors on top of a car should have a better view of the surroundings than a human, and wouldn't suffer from that kind of fatigue at all. More, the human is not going to be hypnotized by the road if they aren't actively driving. As a passenger my eyes frequently check out the scenery; as a driver you're forced to watch the road nearly 100% of the time. P.S. in my drive, I tend to pull over at the halfway point, so after about 90 minutes. And last night that did feel like about 10-15 minutes too long.

prawn 12y ago
What about an AI that asked you questions (especially about your surroundings and the environment ahead of you) and generally engaged you to stay awake? Even an audio-only version of Duolingo that taught and tested you so you felt productive rather than as though you were wasting time with a prattling AI?
- SomeCallMeTim 12y ago
  Nice ideas, actually. Yeah, I'd consider that. You have to be sure that whatever it is doesn't engage any "spacial" thinking, however. I remember reading about studies that demonstrated that giving people visual descriptions or 3d puzzles was more distracting than other kinds of thinking while driving. While I sometimes just want to relax, there are times when I'm feeling I COULD be productive if there were something I could do that didn't involve my hands or eyes. :) One thing I've done is to talk into a voice recorder. But there is only so long I can talk about an idea in a useful manner.
  - prawn 12y ago
    Yes, interjecting with questions about the road, traffic in the area, terrain ahead and so on could be helpful if it wasn't too repetitive. I think it would have to be personable and engaging ("Her"-style) to be really effective.

tlrobinson 12y ago

It seems like eye tracking and "hands on the steering wheel" sensors would solve this.

aidenn0 12y ago

> Highway driving would be even more monotonous with this product I suspect it would actually be the opposite. If you can take your eyes off the road for say 15-20s every 15 minutes or so, the drive is much less monotonous, and likely safer.

scintill76 12y ago
Yeah, others have had some good counterpoints on this too. Maybe another argument with the same point, is that you can't be ready to drive at any moment if you're gawking at the scenery, etc.? (Or is the system actually going to be able to drive certain routes with a "driver" who can allow themselves to not think about driving at all?) It seems like at some point there would be a qualitative change in the mental processes, where you're effectively not alert to driving, even if you think "I'm only looking away every few minutes." At least if you have been driving for years, where "driving" = "re-evaluating road and vehicle conditions every 3-5 seconds and reacting appropriately." Maybe it should be thought of as learning a new skill, passive driving.

kalleboo 12y ago

> I'l grant that this may not be very solid scientific citation and reasoning here, but it seems like nearly common sense, that a driver can't remain alert for hours on end with a computer doing all his work. There may be lessons to learn from pilots here. There are countless reports of pilots falling asleep in the cockpit while the autopilot is in control of the plane.

tim333 12y ago
Although it still seems safer in spite of that