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Can't say I agree with that. Soccer has a state too, just because they don't pause the game after every completed pass for a few adverts, a timeout, and 12 rep

by gd1 12y ago

Can't say I agree with that. Soccer has a state too, just because they don't pause the game after every completed pass for a few adverts, a timeout, and 12 replays, doesn't mean it doesn't have state.

mturmon 12y ago
OK, if we define one interval as a ball possession (one of the Ci's above), then what factors from C(i) influence C(i+1), and how strong is that influence? The question is not "does it have state", it's "how much does it have relative to other sports mentioned". Incidentally, I notice you're digging at NFL ("a few adverts, ..."). This is off the mark for two reasons. First, this is not about whether NFL or soccer is better. But also, pauses in the game don't affect the argument. It's typically very hard to move the ball way downfield in NFL, but (seems) pretty easy in soccer. This gives rise to a state variable that persists across drives in NFL gameplay. Basically, every NFL yard is a pseudo-point, and they add up in a fine-grained way.
- secstate 12y ago
  Yes, but a team with tons of yardage has no promise of putting it in the endzone, or even field goals. It's the same issue as with possession. The Netherlands just dominated Chile in their last pool match today, but they had 34% possession. As long as I'm commenting I might as well also complain about how silly and reductionist the whole OP is. I was a nerd long before I followed sports, so my allegiance is in data organization and mathematics. But anyone who has set foot on a field in an athletic endeavour where they, as part of a team, had something to win, don't really give a shit for your mathematical odds. Sometimes I fear for nerds who don't appreciate the spirit and gift of being human. And especially for the magic in fleeting moments of exhilaration that probably don't matter at all in the life cycle of your friendly neighbourhood quasar.

by gd1 12y ago

mturmon 12y ago

OK, if we define one interval as a ball possession (one of the Ci's above), then what factors from C(i) influence C(i+1), and how strong is that influence? The question is not "does it have state", it's "how much does it have relative to other sports mentioned". Incidentally, I notice you're digging at NFL ("a few adverts, ..."). This is off the mark for two reasons. First, this is not about whether NFL or soccer is better. But also, pauses in the game don't affect the argument. It's typically very hard to move the ball way downfield in NFL, but (seems) pretty easy in soccer. This gives rise to a state variable that persists across drives in NFL gameplay. Basically, every NFL yard is a pseudo-point, and they add up in a fine-grained way.

secstate 12y ago
Yes, but a team with tons of yardage has no promise of putting it in the endzone, or even field goals. It's the same issue as with possession. The Netherlands just dominated Chile in their last pool match today, but they had 34% possession. As long as I'm commenting I might as well also complain about how silly and reductionist the whole OP is. I was a nerd long before I followed sports, so my allegiance is in data organization and mathematics. But anyone who has set foot on a field in an athletic endeavour where they, as part of a team, had something to win, don't really give a shit for your mathematical odds. Sometimes I fear for nerds who don't appreciate the spirit and gift of being human. And especially for the magic in fleeting moments of exhilaration that probably don't matter at all in the life cycle of your friendly neighbourhood quasar.