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> But to get hired in the first place you have to show overconfidence in your knowledge and abilities. I've had interviewers literally tell me that "Ya, that w

> But to get hired in the first place you have to show overconfidence in your knowledge and abilities. I've had interviewers literally tell me that "Ya, that was a trick question to see if you thought you were god's gift to programming. The fact you didn't rate yourself a 9 or 10 proves that you are sensible." So I'm not sure that is true. I think it is a question of being confident enough that you don't second guess yourself yet humble enough that people don't think you have an ego that will cause workplace drama.

lostcolony 12y ago
I've asked that. "On a scale of 1 to 10, how fluent do you feel in X?" And the questions asked get partially tailored to that. Anyone answering 9 or 10 is in for it.
- opendais 12y ago
  I'm sure it is different between interviewers. I was just providing an anecdote where it could be a bad idea. I'm pretty sure the reason I elicited that reaction was I have a statement on my resume about a project I work on at my current job that handles as many transactions [in terms of $$] as that entire company does. That is just a guess on my part tho.
- icambron 12y ago
  I'm genuinely curious what you're testing with that. Is the idea to see how their scale of fluency matches up with yours, or to see if--assuming they use a reasonably similar scale as you--their self-evaluation if is accurate? If it's the latter, I agree overconfidence is a shortcoming, but it seems odd to structure the interview around sussing that out, especially given that the candidate may be only artificially overconfident because they think that's good for interviews. It feels more like a "gotcha!" than a genuine attempt to determine the candidate's quality. If it's the former (finding out what the candidate thinks "really good at X" means), that sounds interesting, but I don't quite get it.
  - lostcolony 12y ago
    It actually doesn't matter what the goalposts are very much. I've seen it asked with explicit goalposts, but it didn't seem to change anything except readjusting the goalposts; you could still infer the intent. "1 is a complete newbie, 10 means you helped write or at least have memorized the specification" just means the real scale is now 3-8, and they'll pick from there, scale accordingly. That said, someone who asks gains a point right off, as it were. It's intended to view their confidence. As someone else posted, the older they've gotten, the lower they'd score. That's because as they've gotten more experience, they've had more of those "...wow, this code someone else wrote is so much better than mine" and "Oh man, this code I wrote 6 months ago is -terrible-", etc. Someone who says "I'm a ten!", it doesn't matter what they think the goalpost is, the are the best they can imagine, which either means they are great (hence seeing how they answer on the followup questions), or it means they aren't, but they've never seen better...which means they aren't out learning, be it from other devs they work with, open source code, whatever. Throw them some hard questions, see how they answer. If they do well, snap them up, as they're good and they know it; if they do poorly, you may want to pass (a lot of the worst performing candidates I've seen ranked themselves 8-10 in a technology). Someone who says "I'm a 3 maybe" probably means they are passably fluent, but they haven't done much with it, and they recognize it. Feel them out some easy questions first, and expect that if you need them to use this language there will be some mentoring and/or time needed to get them up to speed, but they'll probably be willing to learn given that they applied, and recognize they don't know it well. Someone who says "I'd like to think I'm an 8, but most days I probably code more at a 6" means they're probably quite good with that language, but also quite realistic, and have had experience with requirements changing, making hard decisions due to delivery dates, have worked with a lot of libraries and people and seen some who are better, some who are worse. Start with intermediate questions and go from there. It has no direct bearing on passing/failing the interview, it's just used to set the tone and expectations of the interview. If we have multiple positions open, it might be taken in conjunction with how you do to determine what position is offered, as well.
- walshemj 12y ago
  well you have to calibrate it what does a 1 a 5 or a 10 look like ?
- iMark 12y ago
  I once interviewed a candidate whose resume listed his skills alongside a rating for each, from one to ten. He rated himself 10/10 for Javascript, so I asked what he'd done with the language. He replied "I've validated forms." I was expecting more to say the least.
- jiggy2011 12y ago
  0 - 10 is a pretty horrible scale. If I was rating myself on such a scale I would have got lower as I got older. At 21 you can be a "10" by being the best in your CS class. At 35 you have to compare yourself to people with serious achievements.
  - lostcolony 12y ago
    That's actually what I'd expect. If someone rates themselves a 10, it means they don't know what they don't know.
  - mwfunk 12y ago
    No, the same standards apply regardless of how old you are. If this question comes up in an interview, you are being asked to rate yourself on an objective scale, not on a curve based on where you're at in your career. A 21-year old (or 35-year old, for that matter) who rates himself a 10 is almost certainly way overconfident and will run into (or cause) all sorts of problems. What you're complaining about is actually one of the main things this question is trying to determine. Put another way, someone who rates himself a 10 because he's the best in his CS class is someone who doesn't know what he doesn't know, and is also likely to be a primadonna. Someone who shows some thoughtfulness, skepticism, and humility when answering this question is more mature and self-aware, and is much more likely to be an effective part of the team. The rest of the interview is supposed to establish how much they actually know.
    - jiggy2011 12y ago
      But not knowing what you don't know is really to be expected of people who are recent grads in particular. I think this reveals why the question is problematic unless it is worded very specifically. A 10 from a recent grad could legitimately mean "I've had no problems learning everything that has been thrown at me so far and have very high confidence that I will easily be able to learn more" as much as it could mean "I know everything".
      - lostcolony 12y ago
- tlear 12y ago
  My response would be see ya! thanks for interview(not really)
  - mwfunk 12y ago
    Which doesn't mean the question didn't serve it's purpose... :)
kordless 12y ago
The entire point of an interview is figuring out the answer to these questions: "Will this person deliver what I want if I give them X amount of resources?" Second, "Can I stand working with them for at least one year?". Unfortunately, establishing a trusted conversation with someone takes a lot more than two questions! Fortunately, it's well worth it when you find them.
- collyw 12y ago
  yeah, but the whole interview situation is completely unlike a work environment.
  - kordless 12y ago
    That's a fantastic point. I've spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to make it like one though.
dreamweapon 12y ago
Trick questions in interviews -- of any kind -- are a huge turn-off.
- opendais 12y ago
  I never said I was the interviewer or that I agreed with it. I'm pointing out it does happen and its specifically intended to locate potentially overconfident people and needle them.

lostcolony 12y ago

I've asked that. "On a scale of 1 to 10, how fluent do you feel in X?" And the questions asked get partially tailored to that. Anyone answering 9 or 10 is in for it.

opendais 12y ago
I'm sure it is different between interviewers. I was just providing an anecdote where it could be a bad idea. I'm pretty sure the reason I elicited that reaction was I have a statement on my resume about a project I work on at my current job that handles as many transactions [in terms of $$] as that entire company does. That is just a guess on my part tho.
icambron 12y ago
I'm genuinely curious what you're testing with that. Is the idea to see how their scale of fluency matches up with yours, or to see if--assuming they use a reasonably similar scale as you--their self-evaluation if is accurate? If it's the latter, I agree overconfidence is a shortcoming, but it seems odd to structure the interview around sussing that out, especially given that the candidate may be only artificially overconfident because they think that's good for interviews. It feels more like a "gotcha!" than a genuine attempt to determine the candidate's quality. If it's the former (finding out what the candidate thinks "really good at X" means), that sounds interesting, but I don't quite get it.
- lostcolony 12y ago
  It actually doesn't matter what the goalposts are very much. I've seen it asked with explicit goalposts, but it didn't seem to change anything except readjusting the goalposts; you could still infer the intent. "1 is a complete newbie, 10 means you helped write or at least have memorized the specification" just means the real scale is now 3-8, and they'll pick from there, scale accordingly. That said, someone who asks gains a point right off, as it were. It's intended to view their confidence. As someone else posted, the older they've gotten, the lower they'd score. That's because as they've gotten more experience, they've had more of those "...wow, this code someone else wrote is so much better than mine" and "Oh man, this code I wrote 6 months ago is -terrible-", etc. Someone who says "I'm a ten!", it doesn't matter what they think the goalpost is, the are the best they can imagine, which either means they are great (hence seeing how they answer on the followup questions), or it means they aren't, but they've never seen better...which means they aren't out learning, be it from other devs they work with, open source code, whatever. Throw them some hard questions, see how they answer. If they do well, snap them up, as they're good and they know it; if they do poorly, you may want to pass (a lot of the worst performing candidates I've seen ranked themselves 8-10 in a technology). Someone who says "I'm a 3 maybe" probably means they are passably fluent, but they haven't done much with it, and they recognize it. Feel them out some easy questions first, and expect that if you need them to use this language there will be some mentoring and/or time needed to get them up to speed, but they'll probably be willing to learn given that they applied, and recognize they don't know it well. Someone who says "I'd like to think I'm an 8, but most days I probably code more at a 6" means they're probably quite good with that language, but also quite realistic, and have had experience with requirements changing, making hard decisions due to delivery dates, have worked with a lot of libraries and people and seen some who are better, some who are worse. Start with intermediate questions and go from there. It has no direct bearing on passing/failing the interview, it's just used to set the tone and expectations of the interview. If we have multiple positions open, it might be taken in conjunction with how you do to determine what position is offered, as well.
walshemj 12y ago
well you have to calibrate it what does a 1 a 5 or a 10 look like ?
iMark 12y ago
I once interviewed a candidate whose resume listed his skills alongside a rating for each, from one to ten. He rated himself 10/10 for Javascript, so I asked what he'd done with the language. He replied "I've validated forms." I was expecting more to say the least.
jiggy2011 12y ago
0 - 10 is a pretty horrible scale. If I was rating myself on such a scale I would have got lower as I got older. At 21 you can be a "10" by being the best in your CS class. At 35 you have to compare yourself to people with serious achievements.
- lostcolony 12y ago
  That's actually what I'd expect. If someone rates themselves a 10, it means they don't know what they don't know.
- mwfunk 12y ago
  No, the same standards apply regardless of how old you are. If this question comes up in an interview, you are being asked to rate yourself on an objective scale, not on a curve based on where you're at in your career. A 21-year old (or 35-year old, for that matter) who rates himself a 10 is almost certainly way overconfident and will run into (or cause) all sorts of problems. What you're complaining about is actually one of the main things this question is trying to determine. Put another way, someone who rates himself a 10 because he's the best in his CS class is someone who doesn't know what he doesn't know, and is also likely to be a primadonna. Someone who shows some thoughtfulness, skepticism, and humility when answering this question is more mature and self-aware, and is much more likely to be an effective part of the team. The rest of the interview is supposed to establish how much they actually know.
  - jiggy2011 12y ago
    But not knowing what you don't know is really to be expected of people who are recent grads in particular. I think this reveals why the question is problematic unless it is worded very specifically. A 10 from a recent grad could legitimately mean "I've had no problems learning everything that has been thrown at me so far and have very high confidence that I will easily be able to learn more" as much as it could mean "I know everything".
    - lostcolony 12y ago
tlear 12y ago
My response would be see ya! thanks for interview(not really)
- mwfunk 12y ago
  Which doesn't mean the question didn't serve it's purpose... :)

kordless 12y ago

The entire point of an interview is figuring out the answer to these questions: "Will this person deliver what I want if I give them X amount of resources?" Second, "Can I stand working with them for at least one year?". Unfortunately, establishing a trusted conversation with someone takes a lot more than two questions! Fortunately, it's well worth it when you find them.

collyw 12y ago
yeah, but the whole interview situation is completely unlike a work environment.
- kordless 12y ago
  That's a fantastic point. I've spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to make it like one though.

dreamweapon 12y ago

Trick questions in interviews -- of any kind -- are a huge turn-off.

opendais 12y ago
I never said I was the interviewer or that I agreed with it. I'm pointing out it does happen and its specifically intended to locate potentially overconfident people and needle them.