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I'm willing to bet that you don't live up to your own standards of being friendly with people. But I think you don't even understand what I am trying to say. "

I'm willing to bet that you don't live up to your own standards of being friendly with people. But I think you don't even understand what I am trying to say. "I would try various topics until I find the one we can talk about." I am not talking about meeting once and making small talk. I am talking about meeting every day, for 10 years straight. Curiosity: if somebody can give me a good reason why they don't like Joel, OK. But if they have never heard of him, it seems likely they are not curious about programming. Btw please mention some of the other gazillion blogs that say the same things? (Refer to the top list he has in the sidebar) "You might as well hire on color of their eyes." You think people have as little control over their musical tastes as over the color of their eyes? If they like death metal, it is just a random variation that says nothing about their personality? Or if Gangster Rap is their thing? Musical taste says nothing about personality, is that really what you believe?

danielweber 12y ago
You think people have as little control over their musical tastes as over the color of their eyes? If they like death metal, it is just a random variation that says nothing about their personality? Or if Gangster Rap is their thing? Musical taste says nothing about personality, is that really what you believe? I've always enjoyed finding out what's on the playlist of the great developers I work with, because I am always surprised.
king_jester 12y ago
> Curiosity: if somebody can give me a good reason why they don't like Joel, OK. But if they have never heard of him, it seems likely they are not curious about programming. You are conflating with what you are interested in with what everybody should be interested in. Some people just don't care about Spolsky or aren't big fans of his writing. That doesn't mean anything about those people's interest in programming or computers. The whole point of this article is that companies and teams are creating cliques out of cultural preferences and setting up those that fall outside of their preferences as inferior for not liking what they like. The last several posts you had in this thread reenforced this idea: well gee I found this thing interesting/useful, anyone who doesn't clearly isn't any good.
- facepalm 12y ago
  "That doesn't mean anything about those people's interest in programming or computers." Of course it does. Joel advocates a certain style of development. If you don't like him, you likely don't like that style of development. If your company works "Joel style", why should you hire somebody who doesn't like that development style. Sorry, but the criticism here is ridiculous. It's clear people don't even think about what they write.
watwut 12y ago
It sounds like your answer to question "Are you hiring programmer or drinking buddy?" is "I'm hiring a drink/lunch buddy". If you still work together 10 years later, your topics will be much different then. Whatever you read now is irrelevant. However, with company hires being focused on dinners and lunches small talks, the company is not likely to stay together 10 years later on. Not unless huge changes in culture happen. As for music taste and personality, I do not see much of reliable and relevant to employment. If they would act like jerks towards anybody who does not share their passion or would insist on playing it loud despise other people objections, yeah I would have the issue. Other then that, nope. As far as I'm concerned most people listen whatever was the thing where they grew up.
- hackinthebochs 12y ago
  Accidental downvote--I agree with you completely.
zem 12y ago
anecdotally, yes, i've noticed very little correlation betweeen people's personalities and their tastes in music. why would you even expect there to be one?

danielweber 12y ago

You think people have as little control over their musical tastes as over the color of their eyes? If they like death metal, it is just a random variation that says nothing about their personality? Or if Gangster Rap is their thing? Musical taste says nothing about personality, is that really what you believe? I've always enjoyed finding out what's on the playlist of the great developers I work with, because I am always surprised.

king_jester 12y ago

> Curiosity: if somebody can give me a good reason why they don't like Joel, OK. But if they have never heard of him, it seems likely they are not curious about programming. You are conflating with what you are interested in with what everybody should be interested in. Some people just don't care about Spolsky or aren't big fans of his writing. That doesn't mean anything about those people's interest in programming or computers. The whole point of this article is that companies and teams are creating cliques out of cultural preferences and setting up those that fall outside of their preferences as inferior for not liking what they like. The last several posts you had in this thread reenforced this idea: well gee I found this thing interesting/useful, anyone who doesn't clearly isn't any good.

facepalm 12y ago
"That doesn't mean anything about those people's interest in programming or computers." Of course it does. Joel advocates a certain style of development. If you don't like him, you likely don't like that style of development. If your company works "Joel style", why should you hire somebody who doesn't like that development style. Sorry, but the criticism here is ridiculous. It's clear people don't even think about what they write.

watwut 12y ago

It sounds like your answer to question "Are you hiring programmer or drinking buddy?" is "I'm hiring a drink/lunch buddy". If you still work together 10 years later, your topics will be much different then. Whatever you read now is irrelevant. However, with company hires being focused on dinners and lunches small talks, the company is not likely to stay together 10 years later on. Not unless huge changes in culture happen. As for music taste and personality, I do not see much of reliable and relevant to employment. If they would act like jerks towards anybody who does not share their passion or would insist on playing it loud despise other people objections, yeah I would have the issue. Other then that, nope. As far as I'm concerned most people listen whatever was the thing where they grew up.

hackinthebochs 12y ago
Accidental downvote--I agree with you completely.

zem 12y ago

anecdotally, yes, i've noticed very little correlation betweeen people's personalities and their tastes in music. why would you even expect there to be one?