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I used to tend to agree with 4) until I became a cyclist. You can follow the spirit of the law without following the letter of the law. If you're on a bike and

by cgs 17y ago

I used to tend to agree with 4) until I became a cyclist. You can follow the spirit of the law without following the letter of the law. If you're on a bike and you're trying to get somewhere in the city in a reasonable amount of time, it is highly impractical to come to a complete stop at every stop sign. Should you slow down and be ready to stop? Yes. Should you stop if there's traffic? Definitely yes. If the streets are deserted is it OK to coast through? With caution. Ride a couple miles in cyclists shoes and things look very different. Please don't assume all cyclists are assholes. Sure, some cyclists are complete douchebags. Idiocy abounds here in Chicago. I recently saw a guy on the Lake Shore trail in Chicago talking on his phone and smoking a cigarette. And don't get me started on the hipsters riding their fixies with their iPods cranked up. Trust me, I want to punch them myself - but not all cyclists are to blame.

anamax 17y ago
> If you're on a bike and you're trying to get somewhere in the city in a reasonable amount of time, it is highly impractical to come to a complete stop at every stop sign. By that standard, it's just as impractical in a car. > Should you stop if there's traffic? Definitely yes. The question is rarely what should one do, but what one does. > Trust me, I want to punch them myself - but not all cyclists are to blame. No one said that they were. However, the excuses for "bad behavior" by drivers and bicyclists are very different.
- zargon 17y ago
  > By that standard, it's just as impractical in a car. Which is why we should get rid of the stop signs and traffic lights. In addition to slowing traffic, their presence is correlated with increased accidents vs. intersections without them.
  - cubedice 17y ago
    I've always been a fan of roundabouts, especially for smaller intersections.
- jrockway 17y ago
  By that standard, it's just as impractical in a car. Last time I checked, you don't have to unclip to stop your car. And anyway, I live by a stop sign, and I have never seen a car come to a full stop either. Just out of curiosity, have you ever ridden a bike? You get a sense of what rules you can and can't ignore. A stop sign when you are on the non-conflicting side of a T intersection? Probably safe to slow for, rather than stop, unclip, wait, and clip back in. A red light at a major intersection? Might as well wait. Anyway, I am pretty conservative in breaking the rules, but I don't feel at all bad ignoring a stop sign when there is literally no traffic.
  - anamax 17y ago
    > Last time I checked, you don't have to unclip to stop your car. The last time I checked, clipping was a choice. We don't excuse drivers who make choices that make it inconvenient for them to obey traffic laws.... And no, "training" isn't an excuse either. > Just out of curiosity, have you ever ridden a bike? Yes, what of it? > You get a sense of what rules you can and can't ignore. Oh really? > I don't feel at all bad ignoring a stop sign when there is literally no traffic. That's nice, but observing bicyclists shows that "no traffic" often means "can I beat it if other folks give me a pass?". (My assumption that they're checking may be unfounded.)
wallflower 17y ago
I highly recommend "Effective Cycling" by John Forester as a reference on how to learn the rules of cycling with automobiles on the same roads. The basic rule of thumb is the same as motorcyclists - pretend you are invisible and car drivers cannot see you. Rolling through stop signs is a calculated risk. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_Cycling http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_Cycling
jrockway 17y ago
Idiocy abounds here in Chicago. So true. I don't think I've ever ridden on the north side of the Lakefront Trail without experiencing at least one moment of sheer terror. A nice ride, but I had to give it up. People talking on their cell phones, riding on the wrong side of the road, little kids playing on the path, joggers that jump right in front of you (got a new wheelset out of that), sand all over the road surface around blind curves... (and yes, I went down hard because of this). When it's raining, though, it's a great ride. A drop of rain and the entire city goes inside, leaving the entire trail for me :) The south side is much better (but a very boring ride), and I have never really felt unsafe on the road. Anyway, I am just waiting for someone to get really hurt... it is bound to happen some day.

by cgs 17y ago

anamax 17y ago

> If you're on a bike and you're trying to get somewhere in the city in a reasonable amount of time, it is highly impractical to come to a complete stop at every stop sign. By that standard, it's just as impractical in a car. > Should you stop if there's traffic? Definitely yes. The question is rarely what should one do, but what one does. > Trust me, I want to punch them myself - but not all cyclists are to blame. No one said that they were. However, the excuses for "bad behavior" by drivers and bicyclists are very different.

zargon 17y ago
> By that standard, it's just as impractical in a car. Which is why we should get rid of the stop signs and traffic lights. In addition to slowing traffic, their presence is correlated with increased accidents vs. intersections without them.
- cubedice 17y ago
  I've always been a fan of roundabouts, especially for smaller intersections.
jrockway 17y ago
By that standard, it's just as impractical in a car. Last time I checked, you don't have to unclip to stop your car. And anyway, I live by a stop sign, and I have never seen a car come to a full stop either. Just out of curiosity, have you ever ridden a bike? You get a sense of what rules you can and can't ignore. A stop sign when you are on the non-conflicting side of a T intersection? Probably safe to slow for, rather than stop, unclip, wait, and clip back in. A red light at a major intersection? Might as well wait. Anyway, I am pretty conservative in breaking the rules, but I don't feel at all bad ignoring a stop sign when there is literally no traffic.
- anamax 17y ago
  > Last time I checked, you don't have to unclip to stop your car. The last time I checked, clipping was a choice. We don't excuse drivers who make choices that make it inconvenient for them to obey traffic laws.... And no, "training" isn't an excuse either. > Just out of curiosity, have you ever ridden a bike? Yes, what of it? > You get a sense of what rules you can and can't ignore. Oh really? > I don't feel at all bad ignoring a stop sign when there is literally no traffic. That's nice, but observing bicyclists shows that "no traffic" often means "can I beat it if other folks give me a pass?". (My assumption that they're checking may be unfounded.)

wallflower 17y ago

I highly recommend "Effective Cycling" by John Forester as a reference on how to learn the rules of cycling with automobiles on the same roads. The basic rule of thumb is the same as motorcyclists - pretend you are invisible and car drivers cannot see you. Rolling through stop signs is a calculated risk. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_Cycling http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_Cycling

jrockway 17y ago

Idiocy abounds here in Chicago. So true. I don't think I've ever ridden on the north side of the Lakefront Trail without experiencing at least one moment of sheer terror. A nice ride, but I had to give it up. People talking on their cell phones, riding on the wrong side of the road, little kids playing on the path, joggers that jump right in front of you (got a new wheelset out of that), sand all over the road surface around blind curves... (and yes, I went down hard because of this). When it's raining, though, it's a great ride. A drop of rain and the entire city goes inside, leaving the entire trail for me :) The south side is much better (but a very boring ride), and I have never really felt unsafe on the road. Anyway, I am just waiting for someone to get really hurt... it is bound to happen some day.