14 ms·

Buyback Bitcoin After Checkout

40 points by marcell 12y ago

cecilpl 12y ago
So... basically it lets you pay in dollars?
- dwild 12y ago
  ... using a third party. Paypal refuse multiple type of transaction, it's why so much Indiegogo campaign had their funds frozen at the beginning. If we can't trust Paypal to keep our funds, who can we trust? No one it seems... Bitcoin is an alternative, you don't have to stick with Paypal, you have alternatives, you can go with Coinbase, Btc-e, Bitstamp, Bitpay or even on of your local Bitcoin reseller in the street. It's basically saying Paypal is bad because you pay in dollars... For me Bitcoin was never a full currency, it's more like an independent intermediate currency. Dollars > Bitcoin > Dollars (or Euro, Yens, Pounds, etc...).
eterm 12y ago
Makes it just as easy as paying in local currency! At this point I don't understand the need for bitcoin. The buyer is effectively paying in local currency by buying back, the vendor is effectively receiving local currency by having it convert on purchase. Why include coinbase in that transaction? Where is the need for bitcoin to be involved at all?
- JoshTriplett 12y ago
  First, because both of those steps are optional: the seller can choose whether to keep bitcoin or local currency, and the buyer can choose whether to keep bitcoin in stock or buy it as needed. Second, because convert-transmit-unconvert still bypasses many of the painful aspects of other money transfer mechanisms. Both buyer and seller only interact with entities they trust (coinbase and their bank), no credit cards (and associated fees, chargebacks, and headaches) get involved, and the transmission process in the middle uses bitcoin in lieu of ACH or similar (avoiding many potential risks, reversals, and the various Bad Things that can usually happen if you pay directly from a bank account).
  - battani 12y ago
    "Second, because convert-transmit-unconvert still bypasses many of the painful aspects of other money transfer mechanisms." Using a credit card online or 1-click checkout isn't painful. "Both buyer and seller only interact with entities they trust (coinbase and their bank)" Pretty sure most people trust the bank that issued their credit card. "no credit cards (and associated fees, chargebacks, and headaches)" No chargebacks may be good for merchants, but not for consumers (no protection). Most of the CC fees are reimbursed to the customer in the form of rewards. In France for example, usual debit card fees are 0.5%, and credit cards with rewards are 2%-4%. In Australia, the government intervened and all card fees are < 0.5%. This was good for merchants but customers now don't get rewards/cashback/points on their card. "the transmission process in the middle uses bitcoin in lieu of ACH or similar (avoiding many potential risks, reversals, and the various Bad Things that can usually happen if you pay directly from a bank account)" Not sure what those "many bad things" are. I recently received subpar merchandise from a merchant; called my bank that morning, the transaction was reversed, almost no questions asked. There was a follow-up "investigation" that was in my favor. The fact that I can reverse transactions gives me peace of mind, otherwise known as consumer protection. It's just seeming more and more to me that companies in the bitcoin merchant space are trying to find infinitesimally small optimizations they want to address in the current credit card system using bitcoin. It seems that they're trying to find (or sometimes create) a problem to fit bitcoin, instead of using bitcoin to solve an already existing problem. I think they'll slowly find out, as Coinbase may be with this new feature, that bitcoin is actually not a good currency to be used directly, but rather as an efficient value transfer mechanism, under the hood. In other words, that the real value is in the blockchain, not in bitcoin itself. But I may be wrong. In any case, I'm sticking to my credit card (and soon, tap-tap mobile wallet). Bitcoin doesn't really solve a problem for consumers in consumer-to-merchant transactions; mainly because, well, there really isn't a problem to solve to begin with.
    - aianus 12y ago
      Using a credit card online isn't painful but it's more painful than using Bitcoin. For one, I don't need to memorize an arbitrary 16 digits + CVV2 + Expiry Date. Nor do I have to enter my billing address for virtual goods or deal with chargebacks and replacing my card if the merchant loses my card information. One time my bank just canceled my card without giving me any reason besides 'security' and mailed me a new one. What would I have done if I were traveling at the time or needed to buy something in the meantime? Besides that, if you've ever tried doing anything online besides the straight purchase of a good or service (think forex trading, gambling, remittances) you'd agree Bitcoin is light-years ahead of the prevailing payment methods.
- alexbosworth 12y ago
  I see it as competition to PayPal, I like PayPal vs a credit card b/c of convenience and privacy The tricky part here is that Coinbase is taking their 1% fee on the buyback (Maybe they should give a special rate here) - but they also recently introduced an interesting feature that allows merchants to pass on PayPal merchant charge savings on to the consumer. This is early adopter territory, using Bitcoin for this isn't a clear win yet, but Coinbase is doing some smart things to bring mainstream appeal
- aianus 12y ago
  Merchants can pass on all or part of the credit card savings to people using this method. (see gyft.com)
  - sanswork 12y ago
    There are sellers of gift cards that use credit cards that give you the same % off as gyft. Just google discount gift card for many examples.
    - aianus 12y ago
      Can you give me a specific example? I've looked at cardpool.com, giftcardgranny.com, giftcardzen.com, and giftcardrescue.com and none of them have Amazon.com gift cards at more than 1.8% discount (I know I'm moving the goalposts a little but that's the only one I buy). Quick edit: and they only sell the $500 gift card at that discount!
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
cornholio 12y ago
Yes, because it's not about spending bitcoin, it's about compelling merchants to adopt it, thus inflating the bubble, thus giving one the benefits of hoarding a deflationary currency.
- rowyaboat 12y ago
  yup, and if you're not involved, you're losing out, because a lot of people are making MILLIONS
gte910h 12y ago
Right now you only have the choice of a transaction with chargeback guarentees and other credit card niceities. With something like bitcoin as an option, you have the option to drop that fraud overage charge, when you aren't worried about the other party (like in a repeated business scenario, such as amazon, or for a tiny purchase, or other things of that nature).

40 points by marcell 12y ago

cecilpl 12y ago

So... basically it lets you pay in dollars?

dwild 12y ago
... using a third party. Paypal refuse multiple type of transaction, it's why so much Indiegogo campaign had their funds frozen at the beginning. If we can't trust Paypal to keep our funds, who can we trust? No one it seems... Bitcoin is an alternative, you don't have to stick with Paypal, you have alternatives, you can go with Coinbase, Btc-e, Bitstamp, Bitpay or even on of your local Bitcoin reseller in the street. It's basically saying Paypal is bad because you pay in dollars... For me Bitcoin was never a full currency, it's more like an independent intermediate currency. Dollars > Bitcoin > Dollars (or Euro, Yens, Pounds, etc...).

eterm 12y ago

Makes it just as easy as paying in local currency! At this point I don't understand the need for bitcoin. The buyer is effectively paying in local currency by buying back, the vendor is effectively receiving local currency by having it convert on purchase. Why include coinbase in that transaction? Where is the need for bitcoin to be involved at all?

JoshTriplett 12y ago
First, because both of those steps are optional: the seller can choose whether to keep bitcoin or local currency, and the buyer can choose whether to keep bitcoin in stock or buy it as needed. Second, because convert-transmit-unconvert still bypasses many of the painful aspects of other money transfer mechanisms. Both buyer and seller only interact with entities they trust (coinbase and their bank), no credit cards (and associated fees, chargebacks, and headaches) get involved, and the transmission process in the middle uses bitcoin in lieu of ACH or similar (avoiding many potential risks, reversals, and the various Bad Things that can usually happen if you pay directly from a bank account).
- battani 12y ago
  "Second, because convert-transmit-unconvert still bypasses many of the painful aspects of other money transfer mechanisms." Using a credit card online or 1-click checkout isn't painful. "Both buyer and seller only interact with entities they trust (coinbase and their bank)" Pretty sure most people trust the bank that issued their credit card. "no credit cards (and associated fees, chargebacks, and headaches)" No chargebacks may be good for merchants, but not for consumers (no protection). Most of the CC fees are reimbursed to the customer in the form of rewards. In France for example, usual debit card fees are 0.5%, and credit cards with rewards are 2%-4%. In Australia, the government intervened and all card fees are < 0.5%. This was good for merchants but customers now don't get rewards/cashback/points on their card. "the transmission process in the middle uses bitcoin in lieu of ACH or similar (avoiding many potential risks, reversals, and the various Bad Things that can usually happen if you pay directly from a bank account)" Not sure what those "many bad things" are. I recently received subpar merchandise from a merchant; called my bank that morning, the transaction was reversed, almost no questions asked. There was a follow-up "investigation" that was in my favor. The fact that I can reverse transactions gives me peace of mind, otherwise known as consumer protection. It's just seeming more and more to me that companies in the bitcoin merchant space are trying to find infinitesimally small optimizations they want to address in the current credit card system using bitcoin. It seems that they're trying to find (or sometimes create) a problem to fit bitcoin, instead of using bitcoin to solve an already existing problem. I think they'll slowly find out, as Coinbase may be with this new feature, that bitcoin is actually not a good currency to be used directly, but rather as an efficient value transfer mechanism, under the hood. In other words, that the real value is in the blockchain, not in bitcoin itself. But I may be wrong. In any case, I'm sticking to my credit card (and soon, tap-tap mobile wallet). Bitcoin doesn't really solve a problem for consumers in consumer-to-merchant transactions; mainly because, well, there really isn't a problem to solve to begin with.
  - aianus 12y ago
    Using a credit card online isn't painful but it's more painful than using Bitcoin. For one, I don't need to memorize an arbitrary 16 digits + CVV2 + Expiry Date. Nor do I have to enter my billing address for virtual goods or deal with chargebacks and replacing my card if the merchant loses my card information. One time my bank just canceled my card without giving me any reason besides 'security' and mailed me a new one. What would I have done if I were traveling at the time or needed to buy something in the meantime? Besides that, if you've ever tried doing anything online besides the straight purchase of a good or service (think forex trading, gambling, remittances) you'd agree Bitcoin is light-years ahead of the prevailing payment methods.
alexbosworth 12y ago
I see it as competition to PayPal, I like PayPal vs a credit card b/c of convenience and privacy The tricky part here is that Coinbase is taking their 1% fee on the buyback (Maybe they should give a special rate here) - but they also recently introduced an interesting feature that allows merchants to pass on PayPal merchant charge savings on to the consumer. This is early adopter territory, using Bitcoin for this isn't a clear win yet, but Coinbase is doing some smart things to bring mainstream appeal
aianus 12y ago
Merchants can pass on all or part of the credit card savings to people using this method. (see gyft.com)
- sanswork 12y ago
  There are sellers of gift cards that use credit cards that give you the same % off as gyft. Just google discount gift card for many examples.
  - aianus 12y ago
    Can you give me a specific example? I've looked at cardpool.com, giftcardgranny.com, giftcardzen.com, and giftcardrescue.com and none of them have Amazon.com gift cards at more than 1.8% discount (I know I'm moving the goalposts a little but that's the only one I buy). Quick edit: and they only sell the $500 gift card at that discount!

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

cornholio 12y ago

Yes, because it's not about spending bitcoin, it's about compelling merchants to adopt it, thus inflating the bubble, thus giving one the benefits of hoarding a deflationary currency.

rowyaboat 12y ago
yup, and if you're not involved, you're losing out, because a lot of people are making MILLIONS

gte910h 12y ago

Right now you only have the choice of a transaction with chargeback guarentees and other credit card niceities. With something like bitcoin as an option, you have the option to drop that fraud overage charge, when you aren't worried about the other party (like in a repeated business scenario, such as amazon, or for a tiny purchase, or other things of that nature).