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Funny how quickly things change when someone offers to hand you a lot of money. Granted, someone's opinions can change, but I feel like the first quote especial

Funny how quickly things change when someone offers to hand you a lot of money. Granted, someone's opinions can change, but I feel like the first quote especially describes a personal philosophical value that wouldn't change on a whim.

jeroen 12y ago
"Dropcam will come under Nest’s privacy policy, which explains that data won’t be shared with anyone (including Google) without a customer’s permission. Nest has a paid-for business model and ads are not part of our strategy. In acquiring Dropcam, we’ll apply that same policy to Dropcam too." Looks like nothing will change about that straightforward business model.
- thesausageking 12y ago
  While technically accurate that statement is really misleading. Nest makes a significant amount of revenue from utility companies who pay up to $50 per thermostat per year for Nest agreeing to turn down their usage during peak times. This is a very different model than paying someone for a product. While you buy Nest's product, you are still the product (and selling you is a better business for them long-term).
  - CrosseyeJack 12y ago
    Nest has only recently started operating in the UK so I don't think that any UK energy companies have yet jumped onto that bandwagon. But still I must ask for a source for your claim. Does the owner of the nest have the option to override such feature? Just because I have a nest in my home doesn't mean my home is well suited to kill the heating during peak times. Yeah it might save me a few quid and the energy company a bunch more killing my heating during peak times. But I am not going to sit in a cold house just because the energy company decide what is best for me. If I can override it or disable it. far enough. But that is like your ISP killing your connection because everyone in your street is watching netflix at the same time you are trying to just have a few good irc take rooms open at the same time. In a pay per use case (which most net connections don't) we are used to pay what we use. If I need my house heated because I am cold, I want to be able to heat my home.
    - radiorental 12y ago
      Throwing a guess out there... I think this applies more to Air Conditioning usage in the US. I'm an expat in MA, my company sends out a few emails in the summer along the lines of 'we are reducing our energy consumption at the request of the power provider, all non essential lighting will be turned off and cooling systems tuned to 'optimal' temperatures' this is to avoid brownouts. If I recall, the same does no happen in the UK other than everyone making a cuppa at a break in coronation st. (o;
  - prezjordan 12y ago
    So the utility company pays their customers, who in turn lower their bills by using less energy? Why?
    - maxerickson 12y ago
      During high demand the utility may be purchasing the energy for rates much higher than they are collecting from the customer.
    - thesausageking 12y ago
      No, the utility pays Nest. The customers get nothing.
      - CrosseyeJack 12y ago
        source please.
      - tlrobinson 12y ago
        "Rush Hour Rewards is a service that helps you earn money back from your energy company by using less energy when everyone else is using more. http://support.nest.com/article/What-is-Rush-Hour-Rewards http://support.nest.com/article/What-is-Rush-Hour-Rewards
    - andymurd 12y ago
      Nest's demand response program is called Rush Hour Rewards. They have a good explanation of it on their website [1], but they claim that customers can opt out at any time, customers receive rewards through their electricity supplier. From what I can gather from tweets by participating customers, they do it because it's cool and exciting not because of the financial rewards. [1] http://support.nest.com/article/What-is-Rush-Hour-Rewards http://support.nest.com/article/What-is-Rush-Hour-Rewards
    - opendais 12y ago
      It sounds like they pay Nest based on: http://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2014/01/13/nest-gives-google-its-next-big-data-play-energy/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2014/01/13/nest-gives... "Nest founder and CEO Tony Fadell told Forbes last month that his company had struck deals with close to 20 utility companies, who paid Nest $30 to $50 per thermostat annually, to manage the energy usage of Nest customers who had opted into their utility’s demand-response program. As part of the program, Nest temporarily take over the healing and cooling of a homes for a set period, perhaps a few hours, and customers are notified that an “event” is set to happen some time beforehand. When Nest does this over multiple homes in a neighborhood or county it can, Fadell claimed, lower energy costs for utilities by 50%, by re-routing peak energy being used in empty homes. “We know how many people are home during those times,” he said “We know which homes have cooling, we can go through the data and we can say we believe we’re a five megawatt power generator or 10 megawatts in this county. That’s what we can deliver – 50-60% of the energy that was consumed in that window has been shifted away.” The services makes Nest a middle man for utility companies, meaning that Google itself will now play a role in managing energy efficiency programs across wide swathes of home and even counties – something that Google has been keen to do for some time." This is pretty much why I wouldn't buy a Nest. I don't need a 3rd party knowing when I'm not home.
  - matt-attack 12y ago
    Wouldn't a for-profit utility company want customers to turn their usage up?
    - adestefan 12y ago
      You make no money when your system fails because it's overloaded. Also, most utilities need to purchase energy from other areas, at a significant premium, during peak usage days.
    - millstone 12y ago
      Most customers pay a fixed rate per kWh, but the cost to the utility is dynamic. When the grid is near capacity, electricity may be sold at an order of magnitude below its marginal cost to the utility. Here in northern California, our utility (PG&E) is experimenting with "peak day" pricing. During peak hours of certain days, electricity costs increase by ~10x. In return we enjoy a lower baseline rate the rest of the year, encouraging us to shift consumption to off-peak hours. It's a great idea for everyone involved.
      - tlrobinson 12y ago
        This and Uber's "surge pricing" are perfect examples of how technology enables more efficient markets.
enneff 12y ago
The latter quote about the free food is just an ignorant comment. I'm sure once the guy talked to some actual Googlers and saw how it really plays out, his fears were assuaged. (It's true that my free Google lunch keeps me at work around lunch time, but I don't feel pressure for me to work beyond the 38 hours a week they pay me for. In fact, Google has a lot of programs to help its employees maintain a good work/life balance. Of course there are crunch times, but I feel free to spend less time working at other times to balance it out.)
- hueving 12y ago
  38 hours? Are you not salaried?
  - _delirium 12y ago
    Salaried Google employees, officially at least, work a full-time schedule according to the local standard workweek, which varies by jurisdiction. That's 40 hours in the US/UK offices, 37 hours in the Denmark offices, 38 hours in the Australian offices, etc. And enneff's profile indicates he's in Australia.
    - hueving 12y ago
      Interesting. I know several Googlers in the SV area and none of them work on a 40/hr schedule like that. They work like a regular salaried person where they just do the appropriate amount of work to get their tasks completed on schedule. Sometimes they will have a relaxed week where they only work ~20 hours and other times they will be in a code sprint and do 60-70 hours.
      - _delirium 12y ago
        I meant average, yeah, not necessarily that you work the same hours every week. However countries also vary a bit in how normal it is for people to work outside of a standard daytime, M-F workweek. I think even in the U.S., it's only really in the Valley (and maybe also in NYC finance) where a regular salaried job has wild week-to-week variations in working hours. Occasional variations, yes, but in most industries it's expected that you'll work standard hours most of the time (e.g. 8-5, M-F), deviating only when there is some major issue. Every engineering company I've heard of works like that, for example. The main exception is that people do do quite a bit of email outside of work hours. There are all sorts of practicalities that rely on a predictable work schedule: scheduling your carpool, arranging childcare dropoff/pickup, etc. How does that work in the tech industry? Do people at Google not have carpools, kids, etc.?
streblo 12y ago
Read the last section of the article.
general_failure 12y ago
I have said this many times before - everyone's ethics has a price. You just need to find the price. (Yeah yeah, there are exceptions in history but I am talking of the norm)
navjot 12y ago
Not really that funny. Most humans aren't brands. They change opinions and views based on new information.

jeroen 12y ago

"Dropcam will come under Nest’s privacy policy, which explains that data won’t be shared with anyone (including Google) without a customer’s permission. Nest has a paid-for business model and ads are not part of our strategy. In acquiring Dropcam, we’ll apply that same policy to Dropcam too." Looks like nothing will change about that straightforward business model.

thesausageking 12y ago
While technically accurate that statement is really misleading. Nest makes a significant amount of revenue from utility companies who pay up to $50 per thermostat per year for Nest agreeing to turn down their usage during peak times. This is a very different model than paying someone for a product. While you buy Nest's product, you are still the product (and selling you is a better business for them long-term).
- CrosseyeJack 12y ago
  Nest has only recently started operating in the UK so I don't think that any UK energy companies have yet jumped onto that bandwagon. But still I must ask for a source for your claim. Does the owner of the nest have the option to override such feature? Just because I have a nest in my home doesn't mean my home is well suited to kill the heating during peak times. Yeah it might save me a few quid and the energy company a bunch more killing my heating during peak times. But I am not going to sit in a cold house just because the energy company decide what is best for me. If I can override it or disable it. far enough. But that is like your ISP killing your connection because everyone in your street is watching netflix at the same time you are trying to just have a few good irc take rooms open at the same time. In a pay per use case (which most net connections don't) we are used to pay what we use. If I need my house heated because I am cold, I want to be able to heat my home.
  - radiorental 12y ago
    Throwing a guess out there... I think this applies more to Air Conditioning usage in the US. I'm an expat in MA, my company sends out a few emails in the summer along the lines of 'we are reducing our energy consumption at the request of the power provider, all non essential lighting will be turned off and cooling systems tuned to 'optimal' temperatures' this is to avoid brownouts. If I recall, the same does no happen in the UK other than everyone making a cuppa at a break in coronation st. (o;
- prezjordan 12y ago
  So the utility company pays their customers, who in turn lower their bills by using less energy? Why?
  - maxerickson 12y ago
    During high demand the utility may be purchasing the energy for rates much higher than they are collecting from the customer.
  - thesausageking 12y ago
    No, the utility pays Nest. The customers get nothing.
    - CrosseyeJack 12y ago
      source please.
    - tlrobinson 12y ago
      "Rush Hour Rewards is a service that helps you earn money back from your energy company by using less energy when everyone else is using more. http://support.nest.com/article/What-is-Rush-Hour-Rewards http://support.nest.com/article/What-is-Rush-Hour-Rewards
  - andymurd 12y ago
    Nest's demand response program is called Rush Hour Rewards. They have a good explanation of it on their website [1], but they claim that customers can opt out at any time, customers receive rewards through their electricity supplier. From what I can gather from tweets by participating customers, they do it because it's cool and exciting not because of the financial rewards. [1] http://support.nest.com/article/What-is-Rush-Hour-Rewards http://support.nest.com/article/What-is-Rush-Hour-Rewards
  - opendais 12y ago
    It sounds like they pay Nest based on: http://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2014/01/13/nest-gives-google-its-next-big-data-play-energy/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2014/01/13/nest-gives... "Nest founder and CEO Tony Fadell told Forbes last month that his company had struck deals with close to 20 utility companies, who paid Nest $30 to $50 per thermostat annually, to manage the energy usage of Nest customers who had opted into their utility’s demand-response program. As part of the program, Nest temporarily take over the healing and cooling of a homes for a set period, perhaps a few hours, and customers are notified that an “event” is set to happen some time beforehand. When Nest does this over multiple homes in a neighborhood or county it can, Fadell claimed, lower energy costs for utilities by 50%, by re-routing peak energy being used in empty homes. “We know how many people are home during those times,” he said “We know which homes have cooling, we can go through the data and we can say we believe we’re a five megawatt power generator or 10 megawatts in this county. That’s what we can deliver – 50-60% of the energy that was consumed in that window has been shifted away.” The services makes Nest a middle man for utility companies, meaning that Google itself will now play a role in managing energy efficiency programs across wide swathes of home and even counties – something that Google has been keen to do for some time." This is pretty much why I wouldn't buy a Nest. I don't need a 3rd party knowing when I'm not home.
- matt-attack 12y ago
  Wouldn't a for-profit utility company want customers to turn their usage up?
  - adestefan 12y ago
    You make no money when your system fails because it's overloaded. Also, most utilities need to purchase energy from other areas, at a significant premium, during peak usage days.
  - millstone 12y ago
    Most customers pay a fixed rate per kWh, but the cost to the utility is dynamic. When the grid is near capacity, electricity may be sold at an order of magnitude below its marginal cost to the utility. Here in northern California, our utility (PG&E) is experimenting with "peak day" pricing. During peak hours of certain days, electricity costs increase by ~10x. In return we enjoy a lower baseline rate the rest of the year, encouraging us to shift consumption to off-peak hours. It's a great idea for everyone involved.
    - tlrobinson 12y ago
      This and Uber's "surge pricing" are perfect examples of how technology enables more efficient markets.

enneff 12y ago

The latter quote about the free food is just an ignorant comment. I'm sure once the guy talked to some actual Googlers and saw how it really plays out, his fears were assuaged. (It's true that my free Google lunch keeps me at work around lunch time, but I don't feel pressure for me to work beyond the 38 hours a week they pay me for. In fact, Google has a lot of programs to help its employees maintain a good work/life balance. Of course there are crunch times, but I feel free to spend less time working at other times to balance it out.)

hueving 12y ago
38 hours? Are you not salaried?
- _delirium 12y ago
  Salaried Google employees, officially at least, work a full-time schedule according to the local standard workweek, which varies by jurisdiction. That's 40 hours in the US/UK offices, 37 hours in the Denmark offices, 38 hours in the Australian offices, etc. And enneff's profile indicates he's in Australia.
  - hueving 12y ago
    Interesting. I know several Googlers in the SV area and none of them work on a 40/hr schedule like that. They work like a regular salaried person where they just do the appropriate amount of work to get their tasks completed on schedule. Sometimes they will have a relaxed week where they only work ~20 hours and other times they will be in a code sprint and do 60-70 hours.
    - _delirium 12y ago
      I meant average, yeah, not necessarily that you work the same hours every week. However countries also vary a bit in how normal it is for people to work outside of a standard daytime, M-F workweek. I think even in the U.S., it's only really in the Valley (and maybe also in NYC finance) where a regular salaried job has wild week-to-week variations in working hours. Occasional variations, yes, but in most industries it's expected that you'll work standard hours most of the time (e.g. 8-5, M-F), deviating only when there is some major issue. Every engineering company I've heard of works like that, for example. The main exception is that people do do quite a bit of email outside of work hours. There are all sorts of practicalities that rely on a predictable work schedule: scheduling your carpool, arranging childcare dropoff/pickup, etc. How does that work in the tech industry? Do people at Google not have carpools, kids, etc.?

streblo 12y ago

Read the last section of the article.

general_failure 12y ago

I have said this many times before - everyone's ethics has a price. You just need to find the price. (Yeah yeah, there are exceptions in history but I am talking of the norm)

navjot 12y ago

Not really that funny. Most humans aren't brands. They change opinions and views based on new information.