4 ms·

I don't think this is really a coup of some kind. It is more a consolidation of power by the oligarchy into a handful of politically powerful, wealthy groups.

I don't think this is really a coup of some kind. It is more a consolidation of power by the oligarchy into a handful of politically powerful, wealthy groups. I think the reason this is working so well is the marketing. Almost no one goes out and admits that the domestic usage is partially to catch people violating "social norm" laws [marijuana bad; alcohol good], and keep an eye on things that are highly political [e.g. Occupy Wall Street]. I think the average person assumes "because MURICA" that doesn't happen.

codyb 12y ago
I think thats semantics. What is a coup but a transfer and consolidation of power? The only difference I can think of is the time span. This seems to be a long haul kind of game as opposed to the traditional military coups of past (and present).
- opendais 12y ago
  Keyword: transfer I'm disagreeing about their being a transfer of power at this stage. There is no power transfer. The basic power blocks already existed in their current form, were the primary source of money for politicians, etc. since the 1980s [at the latest]. Transfer implies they are taking power away from people. They aren't. They are merely utilizing the power they already have to tighten their hold on it to make it harder to transfer power away from them. I don't think this is even truly a new phenomena. It is just with Globalization, Internet, etc. the power blocks are so large that they span the entire world rather than just a single country.
  - hga 12y ago
    "The basic power blocks already existed in their current form, were the primary source of money for politicians, etc. since the 1980s [at the latest]." I didn't notice any changes in this after the post-Watergate "reforms", which happened not long after I became politically aware. Globalization is ancient in American economic history, was very big in the 19th Century, and e.g. for the world, it didn't return to pre-WWI levels until a frighteningly later time, I can't remember when, but within my lifetime (which I suppose I should point out started when Eisenhower was president (barely)). And I agree, this is a consolidation period. But I believe it's build on a foundation of sand, e.g. there is not an infinite hunger for US government debt at negative real interest rates, we're just the "least worst" place to put your money for the foreseeable future.
    - opendais 12y ago
      > I didn't notice any changes in this after the post-Watergate "reforms", which happened not long after I became politically aware. That is why I added the 'at the latest' bit. I didn't want people to get hung up arguing over a date. > And I agree, this is a consolidation period. But I believe it's build on a foundation of sand, e.g. there is not an infinite hunger for US government debt at negative real interest rates, we're just the "least worst" place to put your money for the foreseeable future. It is not purely the US government doing consolidating. The trade treaties the US negotiates are really bought and paid for by US multinationals. China is also consolidating power as it slowly opens itself to the world market and seeks to displace the US's hegemony. I'm sure you can even argue the EU "One Market" is the same type of political-economic consolidation.
mxiia 12y ago
It's almost as if America has become a culture that if something doesn't directly impact the individual they don't care about it, no matter how unjust. We see this with the "well, I have nothing to hide" mentality as well as the "maybe they shouldn't have broken the law in the first place" mentality. The average American has almost assumed the government to be perfect except for the few parts it dislikes and doesn't want to look more deeply to realize that other people have pointed out just as valid criticisms of other parts of the government. What we end up with is a majority of people (say 80%) that all dislike a different small part of the government and think the rest of this group is complaining for no reason or should just accept the way things are. We see this with things like teachers not liking the state-run testing but refusing to acknowledge that the state's interference with drug policies is having an equal if not greater impact. No one is satisfied but everyone has a different problem. We've become closed minded in being open minded. Once we decide we're open minded to one thing we feel that's enough and turn a blind eye to the rest.
- hga 12y ago
  That doesn't jibe at all with how "average Americans" have been arming themselves with rifles of military utility at historically unprecedented rates (some details on request, drilling down to that level would be a lot of work; it started post-9/11, I believe because the government made it clear we were on our own). Concealed carry is also very big, although a lot of that seems to be driven by an aging population, plus I think the media's perfervid portrayal of crime while actual rates are going down in most places.
  - mxiia 12y ago
    Do you have a source for the increase of "rifles of military utility?" Either way, it lines up perfectly with what I just said. Those buying these rifles are a vocal minority. Most Americans see them as a problem and want stricter gun laws, or safety switches on guns. They fail to realize that this group's plight parallels with the plights of the groups they do stand behind.
    - hga 12y ago

codyb 12y ago

I think thats semantics. What is a coup but a transfer and consolidation of power? The only difference I can think of is the time span. This seems to be a long haul kind of game as opposed to the traditional military coups of past (and present).

opendais 12y ago
Keyword: transfer I'm disagreeing about their being a transfer of power at this stage. There is no power transfer. The basic power blocks already existed in their current form, were the primary source of money for politicians, etc. since the 1980s [at the latest]. Transfer implies they are taking power away from people. They aren't. They are merely utilizing the power they already have to tighten their hold on it to make it harder to transfer power away from them. I don't think this is even truly a new phenomena. It is just with Globalization, Internet, etc. the power blocks are so large that they span the entire world rather than just a single country.
- hga 12y ago
  "The basic power blocks already existed in their current form, were the primary source of money for politicians, etc. since the 1980s [at the latest]." I didn't notice any changes in this after the post-Watergate "reforms", which happened not long after I became politically aware. Globalization is ancient in American economic history, was very big in the 19th Century, and e.g. for the world, it didn't return to pre-WWI levels until a frighteningly later time, I can't remember when, but within my lifetime (which I suppose I should point out started when Eisenhower was president (barely)). And I agree, this is a consolidation period. But I believe it's build on a foundation of sand, e.g. there is not an infinite hunger for US government debt at negative real interest rates, we're just the "least worst" place to put your money for the foreseeable future.
  - opendais 12y ago
    > I didn't notice any changes in this after the post-Watergate "reforms", which happened not long after I became politically aware. That is why I added the 'at the latest' bit. I didn't want people to get hung up arguing over a date. > And I agree, this is a consolidation period. But I believe it's build on a foundation of sand, e.g. there is not an infinite hunger for US government debt at negative real interest rates, we're just the "least worst" place to put your money for the foreseeable future. It is not purely the US government doing consolidating. The trade treaties the US negotiates are really bought and paid for by US multinationals. China is also consolidating power as it slowly opens itself to the world market and seeks to displace the US's hegemony. I'm sure you can even argue the EU "One Market" is the same type of political-economic consolidation.

mxiia 12y ago

It's almost as if America has become a culture that if something doesn't directly impact the individual they don't care about it, no matter how unjust. We see this with the "well, I have nothing to hide" mentality as well as the "maybe they shouldn't have broken the law in the first place" mentality. The average American has almost assumed the government to be perfect except for the few parts it dislikes and doesn't want to look more deeply to realize that other people have pointed out just as valid criticisms of other parts of the government. What we end up with is a majority of people (say 80%) that all dislike a different small part of the government and think the rest of this group is complaining for no reason or should just accept the way things are. We see this with things like teachers not liking the state-run testing but refusing to acknowledge that the state's interference with drug policies is having an equal if not greater impact. No one is satisfied but everyone has a different problem. We've become closed minded in being open minded. Once we decide we're open minded to one thing we feel that's enough and turn a blind eye to the rest.

hga 12y ago
That doesn't jibe at all with how "average Americans" have been arming themselves with rifles of military utility at historically unprecedented rates (some details on request, drilling down to that level would be a lot of work; it started post-9/11, I believe because the government made it clear we were on our own). Concealed carry is also very big, although a lot of that seems to be driven by an aging population, plus I think the media's perfervid portrayal of crime while actual rates are going down in most places.
- mxiia 12y ago
  Do you have a source for the increase of "rifles of military utility?" Either way, it lines up perfectly with what I just said. Those buying these rifles are a vocal minority. Most Americans see them as a problem and want stricter gun laws, or safety switches on guns. They fail to realize that this group's plight parallels with the plights of the groups they do stand behind.
  - hga 12y ago