5 ms·

So I'll admit my biases up front: I got a BS,CS degree at an in-state school, and used the GI Bill to pay for all of my tuition, and took loans for study abroad

by 33W 12y ago

So I'll admit my biases up front: I got a BS,CS degree at an in-state school, and used the GI Bill to pay for all of my tuition, and took loans for study abroad. But taking a look at the slideshow, I'm seeing a trend in degrees/schools/debt. BA, advertising & PR, Loyola, $75K BA, lit & writing, UC San Diego, $44K BA, economics, Loyola, $90K BA, film studies, Full Sail, $80K BA, psychology UCF, MS, counseling, Nova Southeastern, $40K BA, biology, Northwestern, $50K BA, economics, Hunter, $12K BA, asian humanities, UCLA, $10K BA, art history, Sonoma State, $27K BA, history & religion, Midland, $11K BA, comparitive literature, Hamilton, $20K BFA, painting, Rhode Island School of Design, $25K BFA, graphic design, School of Visual Arts, $130K BA, communications, Calf. St. Fullerton, $22K How do any of these student think that they'll do anything with these degrees to overcome the debt? The only two that make some sense to me are the $40K to get psychology/counseling, and $12K for economics.

artimaeis 12y ago
I think most potential students are encouraged and told that it will work out - we see all our peers doing it and only hear the success stories. It seems more common these days for the people to at least have heard of not going to college; but when you're in high school and trying to figure everything out you have a ton of people you probably respect explaining how college is what ALL successful people do. They make it seem so possible that if you pursue your dreams you'll be successful. No one who's guiding these students wants to be the person to say "maybe you should pursue welding". They often don't even know that trade-schools do offer a higher probability for a good ROI.
Zigurd 12y ago
Because having a bachelors degree from a good (not necessarily elite) university should equip you to handle any number of jobs in general management or government. If that's not happening, there could be a few different reasons: 1. Getting a BA isn't as rigorous as it used to be, and no longer means "This is an educated person. Besides their specialty, they should be smart and adaptable enough for most administrative-level purposes." Pseudo-professionalism has also closed the doors to some of these jobs, maybe as a way to get around civil service tests as a way for the educated to get government jobs without specific training. 2. The white collar, middle class job pool has been decimated, and not enough places need generally well-educated people.
- _delirium 12y ago
  This is still more or less the case in northern Europe. If you have a degree (in anything), the most likely outcome by far is that you lead a normal middle-class life. There is no big pool of unemployed Swedish BA/MA holders; rather, the unemployment problems are among people with no university degree.
_random_ 12y ago
Like some sort of evil plot of misadvertising hobbies as jobs to young people.
x86_64Ubuntu 12y ago
And keep in mind, those salaries don't take into account the unemployed who have those degrees from those institutions.
- 33W 12y ago
  Sorry if it was ambiguous, the listed dollar amount is student debt from the slideshow.
ForHackernews 12y ago
The $50K biology degree from Northwestern is arguably worth it. Northwestern is the best school on that list, and an undergraduate degree in biology is often a stepping stone to an MD, MHA, MPH, or PhD.
- hga 12y ago
  That's what I was thinking, it's one of the nation's top schools, and you get paid for at least a PhD education. Still a tough job market. I also wonder about the Rhode Island School of Design degree, I really don't know much of anything about that whole area of design and fine arts, but I been told they're one of the top schools in their areas of specialization, and a moment with Wikipedia indicates they're #1. Plus it sounds like they're intertwined with Brown. So if you're going to get such a major, it sounds like the place to do so. And 25K in debt isn't completely insane.
  - ForHackernews 12y ago
    Honestly, $10K for Asian Humanities at UCLA doesn't sound so bad, either. Maybe that major isn't a natural moneymaker, but UCLA is another very good school, and I bet plenty of companies wanting to do business in Asia would be happy to hire a bright student with that background.
    - hga 12y ago
      I think it would depend on the quality of the studies. If focused on the gender, class and race food group of a large subset of the humanities, I can see corporate employers avoiding such potential trouble makers like the plague, but there are always non-profits and NGOs, even Foreign Service, although per Wikipedia the odds for the generalist path are very low. If it actually made them useful, e.g. included some time "in country", and ideally minimal language and cultural fluency in at least one country of note, sure thing. Especially at such a price. I have a friend who did both physics and Japanese and for a long time did well using both.
- 33W 12y ago
  Perhaps, but unless the slideshow had a typo, it was a BA in Biology...

by 33W 12y ago

artimaeis 12y ago

I think most potential students are encouraged and told that it will work out - we see all our peers doing it and only hear the success stories. It seems more common these days for the people to at least have heard of not going to college; but when you're in high school and trying to figure everything out you have a ton of people you probably respect explaining how college is what ALL successful people do. They make it seem so possible that if you pursue your dreams you'll be successful. No one who's guiding these students wants to be the person to say "maybe you should pursue welding". They often don't even know that trade-schools do offer a higher probability for a good ROI.

Zigurd 12y ago

Because having a bachelors degree from a good (not necessarily elite) university should equip you to handle any number of jobs in general management or government. If that's not happening, there could be a few different reasons: 1. Getting a BA isn't as rigorous as it used to be, and no longer means "This is an educated person. Besides their specialty, they should be smart and adaptable enough for most administrative-level purposes." Pseudo-professionalism has also closed the doors to some of these jobs, maybe as a way to get around civil service tests as a way for the educated to get government jobs without specific training. 2. The white collar, middle class job pool has been decimated, and not enough places need generally well-educated people.

_delirium 12y ago
This is still more or less the case in northern Europe. If you have a degree (in anything), the most likely outcome by far is that you lead a normal middle-class life. There is no big pool of unemployed Swedish BA/MA holders; rather, the unemployment problems are among people with no university degree.

_random_ 12y ago

Like some sort of evil plot of misadvertising hobbies as jobs to young people.

x86_64Ubuntu 12y ago

And keep in mind, those salaries don't take into account the unemployed who have those degrees from those institutions.

33W 12y ago
Sorry if it was ambiguous, the listed dollar amount is student debt from the slideshow.

ForHackernews 12y ago

The $50K biology degree from Northwestern is arguably worth it. Northwestern is the best school on that list, and an undergraduate degree in biology is often a stepping stone to an MD, MHA, MPH, or PhD.

hga 12y ago
That's what I was thinking, it's one of the nation's top schools, and you get paid for at least a PhD education. Still a tough job market. I also wonder about the Rhode Island School of Design degree, I really don't know much of anything about that whole area of design and fine arts, but I been told they're one of the top schools in their areas of specialization, and a moment with Wikipedia indicates they're #1. Plus it sounds like they're intertwined with Brown. So if you're going to get such a major, it sounds like the place to do so. And 25K in debt isn't completely insane.
- ForHackernews 12y ago
  Honestly, $10K for Asian Humanities at UCLA doesn't sound so bad, either. Maybe that major isn't a natural moneymaker, but UCLA is another very good school, and I bet plenty of companies wanting to do business in Asia would be happy to hire a bright student with that background.
  - hga 12y ago
    I think it would depend on the quality of the studies. If focused on the gender, class and race food group of a large subset of the humanities, I can see corporate employers avoiding such potential trouble makers like the plague, but there are always non-profits and NGOs, even Foreign Service, although per Wikipedia the odds for the generalist path are very low. If it actually made them useful, e.g. included some time "in country", and ideally minimal language and cultural fluency in at least one country of note, sure thing. Especially at such a price. I have a friend who did both physics and Japanese and for a long time did well using both.
33W 12y ago
Perhaps, but unless the slideshow had a typo, it was a BA in Biology...