4 ms·

> engineering isn’t just for engineers. Yes it is.

by return0 12y ago

lukasm 12y ago
Could be. The question is: Do you want to drive every day to work over the bridge that was not build by engineers.
- juliangoldsmith 12y ago
  I disagree with your metaphor. If the bridge you're on collapses, you could be seriously injured. If the CRM you're working in crashes, you're moderately inconvenienced until it comes back up.
  - lukasm 12y ago
    Your app constantly crashes, your customers are pissed and leave. You have to close the company. You suffer from depression and kill yourself. You could find loopholes in any analogy. That's what they are - analogies. Perhaps a different one could capture what I wanted to say. Everybody can sing, but not everybody can listen it.
    - contactmatts 12y ago
      That escalated quickly.
  - s_kilk 12y ago
    Or your CRM crashes and loses some of your business contacts. Or it doesn't crash and just silently corrupts the data your business depends on over time and no-one spots the problem until it's too late. Or maybe the software you use leaks your secrets to others and you are unwillingly outed as transgender/gay/in-disagreement-with-the-state/etc... In this digital age, bad software can do irreparable harm to people. We need to keep this in mind and hold ourselves to a higher standard.
    - dllthomas 12y ago
      I think those are all still at least marginally better than having the bridge you're on collapse, but on the other hand they can wind up affecting many more people than can fit on a single bridge...
  - stonemetal 12y ago
    There is comparable "life at risk" software. Hospital electronic records and devices, the software controlling your car, airplane autopilots, etc.
  - ProAm 12y ago
    The people at Knight Capital would disagree with your statement [1][2]. [1] http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/08/02/knight-capital-says-trading-mishap-cost-it-440-million/ http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/08/02/knight-capital-says-t... [2] http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/09/technology/knight-expensive-computer-bug/ http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/09/technology/knight-expensive-...
  - return0 12y ago
    Until this CRM is in a hospital and you 're the patient in the intensive care unit.
DaveSapien 12y ago
agreed.
afarrell 12y ago
Yes it is. There is value in learning to build things without being an engineer, but you should know the limits of your skill so you don't cause others harm.
- ProAm 12y ago
  | you should know the limits of your skill so you don't cause others harm Which is funny how the 'hacker' mentality is to build things fast and cheap. Along with Zuckerberg's "Most fast and break things" mantra.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - judk 12y ago
    Moved fast and broke the quotation.
    - ProAm 12y ago
      Which quotation? [1] [1] http://rack.3.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDE0LzA0LzMwL2ZjL1p1Y2tlcmJlcmcxLmQxYTYzLmpwZwpwCXRodW1iCTk1MHg1MzQjCmUJanBn/c2caaa03/dd9/Zuckerberg1.jpg http://rack.3.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDE0LzA0LzMwL2ZjL1p1Y2tlc...

> engineering isn’t just for engineers. Yes it is.

by return0 12y ago

> engineering isn’t just for engineers. Yes it is.

lukasm 12y ago

Could be. The question is: Do you want to drive every day to work over the bridge that was not build by engineers.

juliangoldsmith 12y ago
I disagree with your metaphor. If the bridge you're on collapses, you could be seriously injured. If the CRM you're working in crashes, you're moderately inconvenienced until it comes back up.
- lukasm 12y ago
  Your app constantly crashes, your customers are pissed and leave. You have to close the company. You suffer from depression and kill yourself. You could find loopholes in any analogy. That's what they are - analogies. Perhaps a different one could capture what I wanted to say. Everybody can sing, but not everybody can listen it.
  - contactmatts 12y ago
    That escalated quickly.
- s_kilk 12y ago
  Or your CRM crashes and loses some of your business contacts. Or it doesn't crash and just silently corrupts the data your business depends on over time and no-one spots the problem until it's too late. Or maybe the software you use leaks your secrets to others and you are unwillingly outed as transgender/gay/in-disagreement-with-the-state/etc... In this digital age, bad software can do irreparable harm to people. We need to keep this in mind and hold ourselves to a higher standard.
  - dllthomas 12y ago
    I think those are all still at least marginally better than having the bridge you're on collapse, but on the other hand they can wind up affecting many more people than can fit on a single bridge...
- stonemetal 12y ago
  There is comparable "life at risk" software. Hospital electronic records and devices, the software controlling your car, airplane autopilots, etc.
- ProAm 12y ago
  The people at Knight Capital would disagree with your statement [1][2]. [1] http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/08/02/knight-capital-says-trading-mishap-cost-it-440-million/ http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/08/02/knight-capital-says-t... [2] http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/09/technology/knight-expensive-computer-bug/ http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/09/technology/knight-expensive-...
- return0 12y ago
  Until this CRM is in a hospital and you 're the patient in the intensive care unit.

DaveSapien 12y ago

agreed.

afarrell 12y ago

Yes it is. There is value in learning to build things without being an engineer, but you should know the limits of your skill so you don't cause others harm.

ProAm 12y ago
| you should know the limits of your skill so you don't cause others harm Which is funny how the 'hacker' mentality is to build things fast and cheap. Along with Zuckerberg's "Most fast and break things" mantra.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- judk 12y ago
  Moved fast and broke the quotation.
  - ProAm 12y ago
    Which quotation? [1] [1] http://rack.3.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDE0LzA0LzMwL2ZjL1p1Y2tlcmJlcmcxLmQxYTYzLmpwZwpwCXRodW1iCTk1MHg1MzQjCmUJanBn/c2caaa03/dd9/Zuckerberg1.jpg http://rack.3.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDE0LzA0LzMwL2ZjL1p1Y2tlc...