5 ms·

There are many Java pains, both little and big. Most of them are more related to the JVM than the language. It's why I still don't use Clojure significantly (o

by lucian1900 12y ago

There are many Java pains, both little and big. Most of them are more related to the JVM than the language. It's why I still don't use Clojure significantly (or even ClojureScript), even though I really like the language. Things just break or simply never work and it appears random. Other environments I use get a lot less wrong (although node is pretty bad too).

lisperforlife 12y ago
That is true. Coming from Ruby world, you find that Java and the Clojure world have a lot of rough edges. But Clojure makes things as easy as possible. For example, reading from a file or a URL is still (slurp "https://" https://"). It works fine on a stock OSX, Java 8 sdk and the latest clojure. Don't let such minor inconveniences discourage you from exploring Clojure/ClojureScript. The language is fascinating. I feel that learning and practicing clojure has made me a better developer.
beggi 12y ago
I have always had the feeling that JVM is very stable, but I don't have much Java experience. Is that a wrong assumption?
- simonw 12y ago
  Stable != Convenient to develop with.
  - beggi 12y ago
    Right, of course. Been working a lot with the Swift compiler so I was in some state of mind where I associated interpreter/compiler pain with faults and crashes :)
m0th87 12y ago
What's wrong with node? npm is a very polished package manager, and I'm frankly surprised how infrequently libraries with native bindings fail to build.
- driverdan 12y ago
  For as great as npm is it also has plenty of issues. `npm clear cache` is so common that I don't know why it even bothers with a cache.
jaxytee 12y ago
What pains come from the JVM? From my viewpoint the JVM is the best thing to come from the Java ecosystem.
jwr 12y ago
Actually, Clojure improves the "Java experience" by quite a bit. As an example, leiningen as a build tool is quite usable, and it doesn't take much work to get a working (yes, also from the command line) application. As for the JVM "just breaking", I can't agree with that. The JVM is an impressive piece of engineering and I'm very glad I can make use of it in Clojure, rather than deal with half-baked attempts at building yet another VM (reference counting, anyone?).
- nathell 12y ago
  Interestingly, Leiningen is very much usable as a Maven replacement even for pure Java projects. I've tried it, it works fine. Just specify :java-source-paths in project.clj, and you get all the goodies like lein uberjar for free.

lisperforlife 12y ago

That is true. Coming from Ruby world, you find that Java and the Clojure world have a lot of rough edges. But Clojure makes things as easy as possible. For example, reading from a file or a URL is still (slurp "https://" https://"). It works fine on a stock OSX, Java 8 sdk and the latest clojure. Don't let such minor inconveniences discourage you from exploring Clojure/ClojureScript. The language is fascinating. I feel that learning and practicing clojure has made me a better developer.

beggi 12y ago

I have always had the feeling that JVM is very stable, but I don't have much Java experience. Is that a wrong assumption?

simonw 12y ago
Stable != Convenient to develop with.
- beggi 12y ago
  Right, of course. Been working a lot with the Swift compiler so I was in some state of mind where I associated interpreter/compiler pain with faults and crashes :)

m0th87 12y ago

What's wrong with node? npm is a very polished package manager, and I'm frankly surprised how infrequently libraries with native bindings fail to build.

driverdan 12y ago
For as great as npm is it also has plenty of issues. `npm clear cache` is so common that I don't know why it even bothers with a cache.

jaxytee 12y ago

What pains come from the JVM? From my viewpoint the JVM is the best thing to come from the Java ecosystem.

jwr 12y ago

Actually, Clojure improves the "Java experience" by quite a bit. As an example, leiningen as a build tool is quite usable, and it doesn't take much work to get a working (yes, also from the command line) application. As for the JVM "just breaking", I can't agree with that. The JVM is an impressive piece of engineering and I'm very glad I can make use of it in Clojure, rather than deal with half-baked attempts at building yet another VM (reference counting, anyone?).

nathell 12y ago
Interestingly, Leiningen is very much usable as a Maven replacement even for pure Java projects. I've tried it, it works fine. Just specify :java-source-paths in project.clj, and you get all the goodies like lein uberjar for free.