3 ms·

Exactly. This all leads me to wonder if work can't be done to take the good web concepts and back port them to the operating system level, per the ideas I've br

Exactly. This all leads me to wonder if work can't be done to take the good web concepts and back port them to the operating system level, per the ideas I've briefly touched on in these two prior comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7917921 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7917921 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7891913 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7891913 edit: the two drive-by downvoters are invited to elaborate on how this comment could be improved or what they disagree with so vehemently that this merited downmodding.

jacquesm 12y ago
That almost reads as a re-invention of the java applet.
- malandrew 12y ago
  Like they say, there are no original ideas. At some point the W3C needs to give some serious thought as to how to do applications on the web the right way. That's roughly my wishlist for the future.
- alain94040 12y ago
  What prevents Chrome from running a simulator of Android, and web pages to embed an Android app that will execute, replacing the web page it came from? That would be exactly like the Java applet, except with a much better API (and touchscreen laptops would finally make sense).
  - ossreality 12y ago
    What the fuck? There is so much wrong with those two sentences, I'm not sure how you managed to string them together to sound like it describes something real.
  - jacquesm 12y ago
    That is a very interesting idea. As usually with interesting ideas someone beat you to it: http://www.appcelerator.com/blog/2014/01/browser-based-emulators/ http://www.appcelerator.com/blog/2014/01/browser-based-emula...
- jebblue 12y ago
  I've seen many and worked on one in the late 90's that could out do any HTML5 app I've seen or written. We did it with cohesive API's of the caliber of Windows API but multi-platform and web transparent. Those who wrote off applets will not be looked upon favorably by history. I wrote a powerful database GUI as an applet, to pick up an update all the user had to do was save their work and hit the refresh button. I used Symantec Visual Cafe.
- coldtea 12y ago
  So? If the Java applet was not proprietary, slow and crappy, and if Sun got GUIs and applications, it would be a good thing. And none of the above are necessary elements of a reinvention. In fact, it's the current web one-page-app mess that is a re-invention of the notion of the Java applet warts and all: it's slow, has crappy GUI support, and it's a mess to develop in (like Swing was over-engineered crap). We could use an actual sandboxed, "runs code from internet resources" platform, that contains the whole stack rethought and simplified.
chillingeffect 12y ago
downvoters might have been too busy to actually consider the depth of the concept. I would just suggest that it sounds like what Win7 does underneath the surface with the thousands of real-time Registry operations. That sounds bad, but I'm sure it's chaos because the operations all grew by accretion, not by selection, as your suggestion to backport good web concepts indicates. so.... What are the most likely candidates? What's ready? JSON? WebGL? A SQL interface to the Registry?
- jacquesm 12y ago
  It is a very interesting question to ponder. If you see the web as a logical progression from email->newsgroups->gopher->www then clearly what was missing were the missing links. Once we had those everything else grew exponentially. But the web was clearly not intended to become an application platform. At the same time now that it has become an application platform we are facing a difficult choice: stick to incremental improvements and all kinds of hacks to shoehorn application interfaces into a document model (an awkward fit at best) or, alternatively to see where that progression could go next. How to preserve the 'link' feature and the advantages of the web while addressing the gap between native apps and web apps, improved user privacy and security, less reliance on verticals. That's a very tough nut to crack.

jacquesm 12y ago

That almost reads as a re-invention of the java applet.

malandrew 12y ago
Like they say, there are no original ideas. At some point the W3C needs to give some serious thought as to how to do applications on the web the right way. That's roughly my wishlist for the future.
alain94040 12y ago
What prevents Chrome from running a simulator of Android, and web pages to embed an Android app that will execute, replacing the web page it came from? That would be exactly like the Java applet, except with a much better API (and touchscreen laptops would finally make sense).
- ossreality 12y ago
  What the fuck? There is so much wrong with those two sentences, I'm not sure how you managed to string them together to sound like it describes something real.
- jacquesm 12y ago
  That is a very interesting idea. As usually with interesting ideas someone beat you to it: http://www.appcelerator.com/blog/2014/01/browser-based-emulators/ http://www.appcelerator.com/blog/2014/01/browser-based-emula...
jebblue 12y ago
I've seen many and worked on one in the late 90's that could out do any HTML5 app I've seen or written. We did it with cohesive API's of the caliber of Windows API but multi-platform and web transparent. Those who wrote off applets will not be looked upon favorably by history. I wrote a powerful database GUI as an applet, to pick up an update all the user had to do was save their work and hit the refresh button. I used Symantec Visual Cafe.
coldtea 12y ago
So? If the Java applet was not proprietary, slow and crappy, and if Sun got GUIs and applications, it would be a good thing. And none of the above are necessary elements of a reinvention. In fact, it's the current web one-page-app mess that is a re-invention of the notion of the Java applet warts and all: it's slow, has crappy GUI support, and it's a mess to develop in (like Swing was over-engineered crap). We could use an actual sandboxed, "runs code from internet resources" platform, that contains the whole stack rethought and simplified.

chillingeffect 12y ago

downvoters might have been too busy to actually consider the depth of the concept. I would just suggest that it sounds like what Win7 does underneath the surface with the thousands of real-time Registry operations. That sounds bad, but I'm sure it's chaos because the operations all grew by accretion, not by selection, as your suggestion to backport good web concepts indicates. so.... What are the most likely candidates? What's ready? JSON? WebGL? A SQL interface to the Registry?

jacquesm 12y ago
It is a very interesting question to ponder. If you see the web as a logical progression from email->newsgroups->gopher->www then clearly what was missing were the missing links. Once we had those everything else grew exponentially. But the web was clearly not intended to become an application platform. At the same time now that it has become an application platform we are facing a difficult choice: stick to incremental improvements and all kinds of hacks to shoehorn application interfaces into a document model (an awkward fit at best) or, alternatively to see where that progression could go next. How to preserve the 'link' feature and the advantages of the web while addressing the gap between native apps and web apps, improved user privacy and security, less reliance on verticals. That's a very tough nut to crack.