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This article heavily confuses sound waves and EM waves in places. Just because they are both described in Hertz doesn't make them equivalent.

by mbell 12y ago

lutorm 12y ago
It's not very clearly stated, but they say the ELF radio waves may be able to excite nerves and hence be "sensed" by the body.
- mbell 12y ago
  The author follows the intro to that topic (which says nothing about EM waves causing 'sound' I might add) by saying: Finally, there's a body of empirical evidence that makes this theory more appealing. A study funded by the Canadian government and led by University of Windsor mechanical engineering professor Dr. Colin Novak spent the last year listening to the "Windsor Hum" that's been torturing residents in the Windsor area of Ontario since 2011. If you read the intro to that paper, it's very clear that it was acoustical noise that was measured and likely to be caused by a blast furnace. So that study provides no evidence at all that EM waves are causing 'noise'. The author continues with: The study concluded that not only does the Windsor Hum actually exist, but its likely source was a blast furnace at the U.S. Steel plant on Zug Island, which reportedly generates a high volume of VLF waves during its hours of operation. The study did not find that the blast furnace was radiating VLF waves (VLF being a term limited to EM waves) but rather that it was emitting sound waves in the 30-35Hz range. 30-35Hz is the SLF EM range, so even if the author conflated the types of 'waves', I'm not sure where they got VLF from. And then: Dr. Novak's study caps off decades of Hum theories No, it really doesn't, it just found a loud blast furnace. Not to take anything away from the work needed, locating a sound source at frequencies that low in a complex environment isn't trivial.
  - lutorm 12y ago
    Ok, can't argue with that.
- lotsofmangos 12y ago
  I'd love to know the process by which they think a 30khz radio wave could induce a current in your nervous system that you would perceive as a low frequency sound. The whole piece seems technically illiterate.
  - lutorm 12y ago
    It doesn't seem entirely implausible. Your body can act as an antenna, and nerves are sensitive to electrical currents, and the frequency range is right. It's a question of what the induced current would be and how sensitive the nerves are.
    - lotsofmangos 12y ago
      The top end of the range they are quoting for the radio waves (30khz) is above the top of human hearing (20hz - 20khz), and besides the wavelength is far too long (10000m), for any of your nerves to be acting as antennae. A centimeter, or millimeter scale wave might do something to a nerve, but a 10,000 meter one seems unlikely to.
      - mbell 12y ago
        I find it highly unlikely too, but I think your math is a bit off. You don't need to excite a single nerve, but the entire system. I don't know anything about physiology, but I wouldn't be surprised to be told that there are 10km worth of electrically interconnected 'wires' in our body. If there are, then it wouldn't be outrageous to hypothesis that it could 'pick up' EM radiation at such frequencies. Whether it's enough to matter, I highly doubt, but it doesn't seem completely out of the ballpark.

This article heavily confuses sound waves and EM waves in places. Just because they are both described in Hertz doesn't make them equivalent.

by mbell 12y ago

This article heavily confuses sound waves and EM waves in places. Just because they are both described in Hertz doesn't make them equivalent.

lutorm 12y ago

It's not very clearly stated, but they say the ELF radio waves may be able to excite nerves and hence be "sensed" by the body.

mbell 12y ago
The author follows the intro to that topic (which says nothing about EM waves causing 'sound' I might add) by saying: Finally, there's a body of empirical evidence that makes this theory more appealing. A study funded by the Canadian government and led by University of Windsor mechanical engineering professor Dr. Colin Novak spent the last year listening to the "Windsor Hum" that's been torturing residents in the Windsor area of Ontario since 2011. If you read the intro to that paper, it's very clear that it was acoustical noise that was measured and likely to be caused by a blast furnace. So that study provides no evidence at all that EM waves are causing 'noise'. The author continues with: The study concluded that not only does the Windsor Hum actually exist, but its likely source was a blast furnace at the U.S. Steel plant on Zug Island, which reportedly generates a high volume of VLF waves during its hours of operation. The study did not find that the blast furnace was radiating VLF waves (VLF being a term limited to EM waves) but rather that it was emitting sound waves in the 30-35Hz range. 30-35Hz is the SLF EM range, so even if the author conflated the types of 'waves', I'm not sure where they got VLF from. And then: Dr. Novak's study caps off decades of Hum theories No, it really doesn't, it just found a loud blast furnace. Not to take anything away from the work needed, locating a sound source at frequencies that low in a complex environment isn't trivial.
- lutorm 12y ago
  Ok, can't argue with that.
lotsofmangos 12y ago
I'd love to know the process by which they think a 30khz radio wave could induce a current in your nervous system that you would perceive as a low frequency sound. The whole piece seems technically illiterate.
- lutorm 12y ago
  It doesn't seem entirely implausible. Your body can act as an antenna, and nerves are sensitive to electrical currents, and the frequency range is right. It's a question of what the induced current would be and how sensitive the nerves are.
  - lotsofmangos 12y ago
    The top end of the range they are quoting for the radio waves (30khz) is above the top of human hearing (20hz - 20khz), and besides the wavelength is far too long (10000m), for any of your nerves to be acting as antennae. A centimeter, or millimeter scale wave might do something to a nerve, but a 10,000 meter one seems unlikely to.
    - mbell 12y ago
      I find it highly unlikely too, but I think your math is a bit off. You don't need to excite a single nerve, but the entire system. I don't know anything about physiology, but I wouldn't be surprised to be told that there are 10km worth of electrically interconnected 'wires' in our body. If there are, then it wouldn't be outrageous to hypothesis that it could 'pick up' EM radiation at such frequencies. Whether it's enough to matter, I highly doubt, but it doesn't seem completely out of the ballpark.