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I'm pretty sure the battery->electric motor conversion is a more efficient use of energy than the food->muscle->pedal conversion, so no, it's not lame.

by chipsy 17y ago

natrius 17y ago
Food is solar power except for transportation, so that isn't the appropriate comparison.
- evgen 17y ago
  You really don't know how food is produced, do you? Try reading up a bit on the subject to see just how much energy is required to get a calorie of food energy to your mouth (quick hint: the most commonly used forms of plant-ready nitrogen fertilizer are almost completely derived from oil.)
  - natrius 17y ago
    Ok, I should've included more caveats. I meant that the calories you're consuming are solar power, though there's definitely other energy involved. The comparison is still invalid.
numbchuckskills 17y ago
yeah it's lame. The human body is infinitely more efficient than battery technology we have. You are basically a supercomputer, if you're lucky you get atleast 30,000 charge cycles over your lifetime, and the waste you generate is biodegradable.
- jws 17y ago
  According to wikipedia, human muscles are only about 20% efficient. Right there meatbags have lost to the electric bike before we even consider the efficiency of digestion, food preparation, and transportation. (Pardon while I wave hands about electrical transmission line losses, battery energy return rates, and electrical motor efficiency. I'm fairly certain we can even be so silly as to burn food to power the previously coal fired electric plants and the battery/motor combination still wins, but it will be close in that circumstance.)
swolchok 17y ago
What about the dramatically increased weight of electric bicycles due to the battery? Over short ranges, the fact that humans need to exercise anyway should also become important; I would think twice about a 20-mile daily commute, but I commuted 4 miles each way along the Stevens Creek Trail during the summer I spent at Google and it was a blast. (Despite the increased physical activity, I think Google was net bad for my health because I wasn't able to resist the oh-so-delicious array of desserts.)

I'm pretty sure the battery->electric motor conversion is a more efficient use of energy than the food->muscle->pedal conversion, so no, it's not lame.

by chipsy 17y ago

I'm pretty sure the battery->electric motor conversion is a more efficient use of energy than the food->muscle->pedal conversion, so no, it's not lame.

natrius 17y ago

Food is solar power except for transportation, so that isn't the appropriate comparison.

evgen 17y ago
You really don't know how food is produced, do you? Try reading up a bit on the subject to see just how much energy is required to get a calorie of food energy to your mouth (quick hint: the most commonly used forms of plant-ready nitrogen fertilizer are almost completely derived from oil.)
- natrius 17y ago
  Ok, I should've included more caveats. I meant that the calories you're consuming are solar power, though there's definitely other energy involved. The comparison is still invalid.

numbchuckskills 17y ago

yeah it's lame. The human body is infinitely more efficient than battery technology we have. You are basically a supercomputer, if you're lucky you get atleast 30,000 charge cycles over your lifetime, and the waste you generate is biodegradable.

jws 17y ago
According to wikipedia, human muscles are only about 20% efficient. Right there meatbags have lost to the electric bike before we even consider the efficiency of digestion, food preparation, and transportation. (Pardon while I wave hands about electrical transmission line losses, battery energy return rates, and electrical motor efficiency. I'm fairly certain we can even be so silly as to burn food to power the previously coal fired electric plants and the battery/motor combination still wins, but it will be close in that circumstance.)

swolchok 17y ago

What about the dramatically increased weight of electric bicycles due to the battery? Over short ranges, the fact that humans need to exercise anyway should also become important; I would think twice about a 20-mile daily commute, but I commuted 4 miles each way along the Stevens Creek Trail during the summer I spent at Google and it was a blast. (Despite the increased physical activity, I think Google was net bad for my health because I wasn't able to resist the oh-so-delicious array of desserts.)