5 ms·

As much as it sucks that GS lied about him getting a raise for making them a bunch of money, he really should have gotten their promise in writing. As any trad

As much as it sucks that GS lied about him getting a raise for making them a bunch of money, he really should have gotten their promise in writing. As any trader knows, words mean nothing. This isn't kindergarten.

mhb 12y ago
Traders don't know that at all. They often make deals solely on coming to a non-written agreement. For example, trading in the pits.
- confluence 12y ago
  He wasn't a pit trader, and GS isn't a pit. If the guy can handle making a couple of billion trading mortgages, I'm sure he can handle contracts 101. Pits work entirely on trader to trader rep. Bonuses are discretionary management items, and the rule is if you don't like their discretion, you jump ship and stick it on base at Bank 2. If you want a bonus guarantee, get it in writing, and stick it on base. Otherwise, suck it up.
  - bushido 12y ago
    > He wasn't a pit trader, and GS isn't a pit. Pit trading changed a lot in the late-90's. And moved to Level-2 systems in office buildings with near real-time access to all ECNs giving a unforeseen level of control and participation (yay tech!). As expected all proprietary traders and everyone else called it the pit. And sure, GS isn't a pit. But until late 2009 - early 2010 when they wound up most of their proprietary trading business in response to Dodd-Frank they were one of the mightiest pit traders, with multiple seats on every pit, this was beyond their market makers and remote traders. Their trading activity on CME (Chicago Mercantile Exchange) was legendary. Some would say they had seats on the exchange, other may say they owned the pit (figuratively). But you're right that still doesn't make them a pit.
bushido 12y ago
> he really should have gotten their promise in writing. As any trader knows, words mean nothing. That may work as general advise. Don't know how it applies to traders in this situation. Also this is not about a raise. There are minimum bonuses for proprietary trading with discretionary but previously discussed increases in percentages (bps in this case) for higher performance. A handshake means way more than words.
- confluence 12y ago
  > A handshake means way more than words. Apparently not so in this case. If it ain't on paper, it ain't there.
smackfu 12y ago
If all the trading firms have a policy that bonuses are discretionary, as GS does, then there's really not much you can do. You could negotiate a higher salary, but it's not going to be comparable.
- confluence 12y ago
  That's why you jump ship and stick it in base or in a sign up bonus at the new shop. You don't see John Arnold crying over how Enron didn't pay him enough for generating nearly all their profits.
  - smackfu 12y ago
    Yeah, it sounds like they verbally promised him the high bonus to keep him from jumping ship to start his own firm.
    - confluence 12y ago
      Managers lying to subordinates in the financial industry to juice returns! How preposterous! Now wait here while I make a verbal agreement to buy a mansion.

mhb 12y ago

Traders don't know that at all. They often make deals solely on coming to a non-written agreement. For example, trading in the pits.

confluence 12y ago
He wasn't a pit trader, and GS isn't a pit. If the guy can handle making a couple of billion trading mortgages, I'm sure he can handle contracts 101. Pits work entirely on trader to trader rep. Bonuses are discretionary management items, and the rule is if you don't like their discretion, you jump ship and stick it on base at Bank 2. If you want a bonus guarantee, get it in writing, and stick it on base. Otherwise, suck it up.
- bushido 12y ago
  > He wasn't a pit trader, and GS isn't a pit. Pit trading changed a lot in the late-90's. And moved to Level-2 systems in office buildings with near real-time access to all ECNs giving a unforeseen level of control and participation (yay tech!). As expected all proprietary traders and everyone else called it the pit. And sure, GS isn't a pit. But until late 2009 - early 2010 when they wound up most of their proprietary trading business in response to Dodd-Frank they were one of the mightiest pit traders, with multiple seats on every pit, this was beyond their market makers and remote traders. Their trading activity on CME (Chicago Mercantile Exchange) was legendary. Some would say they had seats on the exchange, other may say they owned the pit (figuratively). But you're right that still doesn't make them a pit.

bushido 12y ago

> he really should have gotten their promise in writing. As any trader knows, words mean nothing. That may work as general advise. Don't know how it applies to traders in this situation. Also this is not about a raise. There are minimum bonuses for proprietary trading with discretionary but previously discussed increases in percentages (bps in this case) for higher performance. A handshake means way more than words.

confluence 12y ago
> A handshake means way more than words. Apparently not so in this case. If it ain't on paper, it ain't there.

smackfu 12y ago

If all the trading firms have a policy that bonuses are discretionary, as GS does, then there's really not much you can do. You could negotiate a higher salary, but it's not going to be comparable.

confluence 12y ago
That's why you jump ship and stick it in base or in a sign up bonus at the new shop. You don't see John Arnold crying over how Enron didn't pay him enough for generating nearly all their profits.
- smackfu 12y ago
  Yeah, it sounds like they verbally promised him the high bonus to keep him from jumping ship to start his own firm.
  - confluence 12y ago
    Managers lying to subordinates in the financial industry to juice returns! How preposterous! Now wait here while I make a verbal agreement to buy a mansion.