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The story is old but I have to say that anyone who manages to outsource his job to China for a quarter of his paycheck and get top-notch quality (he was conside

The story is old but I have to say that anyone who manages to outsource his job to China for a quarter of his paycheck and get top-notch quality (he was considered a rockstar programmer until they found out), has my respect. You don't fire such a person, you appoint him CEO.

nyrina 12y ago
Or at least head of outsourcing
ssdfsdf 12y ago
Lol. We do not live in a meritocracy, you do not become a CEO with mere talent. (I realize you were being sarcastic, but misinterpreting you enabled me to make my point elegantly)
- arethuza 12y ago
  It does rather depend on how you define "meritocracy": http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2001/jun/29/comment http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2001/jun/29/comment
- andmarios 12y ago
  Well, I am sure that he is a CEO in the hearts of the Chinese programmers he hired. :)
thaumasiotes 12y ago
> he was considered a rockstar programmer until they found out I assume his work was being done by a whole team of engineers, though; is it really all that difficult to get a team of five people to contribute more than you're expected to do by yourself? A recent graduate from a top Chinese university can be happy to make less than USD 2K / month. I know a few making 5000 yuan / month (USD $800) plus housing in a company-provided communal apartment. If you're looking to outsource something to some young but highly intelligent chinese programmers, do let me know ;)
- aembleton 12y ago
  Getting stuff built to spec and with intelligible comments from outsourced overseas developers is impressive.
- michaelochurch 12y ago
  Outsourcing is "hard" (and usually fails) because usually, the process is performed by a middle manager who (a) is trying to optimize for cost, which hurts quality and is expensive in the long run, and (b) doesn't have the technical talent and therefore can't recognize it. In any country, the bottom of the barrel is going to be bad. But if you don't have the ability to pick talented people and others in the market do, you end up getting hurt by adverse selection. Then, outsourcing becomes really expensive. Painting Bob as a slacker doesn't tell the whole story. He had to set up his own business. At least while he was ramping up, he had to hire, fire, train, and check the work. At the same time, he had to deal with inconveniences caused by time zones, and cover his tracks. Maybe he slacked once it was established and he could coast, but it's not easy to set up a business like that. To win at the outsourcing game, you need to (a) pay well, so that people care, and (b) pick great people, because paying incompetent people well doesn't do anything. Going overseas might make (a) easier, but it doesn't make (b) less hard.
  - thaumasiotes 12y ago
    I don't intend to paint him as a slacker at all. I respect that what he did took a lot of effort to establish, but I doubt he did a lot of hiring and firing himself -- the article I read on this guy said he employed an existing chinese consulting company. What I'm assuming is that he paid that company enough to engage several engineers at once, which means I'm not surprised that "his" output was considered especially impressive. I think the greatest obstacle to retaining chinese engineers is actually (c) communication across the language barrier.
    - opendais 12y ago
      I suspect at the start he would have done code reviews because otherwise he couldn't know if the other party [the consulting firm] was a competent entity. I'm sure once he figured out their level of competence and how far he could trust their agency [e.g. How much direction they needed to succeed], I suspect that is really when the slacking started. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the second or third consulting company he had tried. Honestly, I doubt that process took more than 3-6 months. Do you find most Chinese programmers don't know written English?
mathattack 12y ago
This smacks of urban legend more than anything else, though I have worked with people who ran tech staffing businesses on company time while fully employed.

nyrina 12y ago

Or at least head of outsourcing

ssdfsdf 12y ago

Lol. We do not live in a meritocracy, you do not become a CEO with mere talent. (I realize you were being sarcastic, but misinterpreting you enabled me to make my point elegantly)

arethuza 12y ago
It does rather depend on how you define "meritocracy": http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2001/jun/29/comment http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2001/jun/29/comment
andmarios 12y ago
Well, I am sure that he is a CEO in the hearts of the Chinese programmers he hired. :)

thaumasiotes 12y ago

> he was considered a rockstar programmer until they found out I assume his work was being done by a whole team of engineers, though; is it really all that difficult to get a team of five people to contribute more than you're expected to do by yourself? A recent graduate from a top Chinese university can be happy to make less than USD 2K / month. I know a few making 5000 yuan / month (USD $800) plus housing in a company-provided communal apartment. If you're looking to outsource something to some young but highly intelligent chinese programmers, do let me know ;)

aembleton 12y ago
Getting stuff built to spec and with intelligible comments from outsourced overseas developers is impressive.
michaelochurch 12y ago
Outsourcing is "hard" (and usually fails) because usually, the process is performed by a middle manager who (a) is trying to optimize for cost, which hurts quality and is expensive in the long run, and (b) doesn't have the technical talent and therefore can't recognize it. In any country, the bottom of the barrel is going to be bad. But if you don't have the ability to pick talented people and others in the market do, you end up getting hurt by adverse selection. Then, outsourcing becomes really expensive. Painting Bob as a slacker doesn't tell the whole story. He had to set up his own business. At least while he was ramping up, he had to hire, fire, train, and check the work. At the same time, he had to deal with inconveniences caused by time zones, and cover his tracks. Maybe he slacked once it was established and he could coast, but it's not easy to set up a business like that. To win at the outsourcing game, you need to (a) pay well, so that people care, and (b) pick great people, because paying incompetent people well doesn't do anything. Going overseas might make (a) easier, but it doesn't make (b) less hard.
- thaumasiotes 12y ago
  I don't intend to paint him as a slacker at all. I respect that what he did took a lot of effort to establish, but I doubt he did a lot of hiring and firing himself -- the article I read on this guy said he employed an existing chinese consulting company. What I'm assuming is that he paid that company enough to engage several engineers at once, which means I'm not surprised that "his" output was considered especially impressive. I think the greatest obstacle to retaining chinese engineers is actually (c) communication across the language barrier.
  - opendais 12y ago
    I suspect at the start he would have done code reviews because otherwise he couldn't know if the other party [the consulting firm] was a competent entity. I'm sure once he figured out their level of competence and how far he could trust their agency [e.g. How much direction they needed to succeed], I suspect that is really when the slacking started. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the second or third consulting company he had tried. Honestly, I doubt that process took more than 3-6 months. Do you find most Chinese programmers don't know written English?

mathattack 12y ago

This smacks of urban legend more than anything else, though I have worked with people who ran tech staffing businesses on company time while fully employed.