4 ms·

Very cool video for what is indeed a wonderful city. Yet it is also a very, very, very expensive city. I remember the last time I returned home from a trip to S

by nkoren 12y ago

Very cool video for what is indeed a wonderful city. Yet it is also a very, very, very expensive city. I remember the last time I returned home from a trip to Stockholm, the relief I felt as the wheels hit the runway: "Aaaahhh... finally back in the land where things are affordable!" (As a point of reference: I live in central London.)

mhp 12y ago
This could be a plus for some people, but average low temperatures are at or below freezing for half the year. source: http://www.holiday-weather.com/stockholm/averages/ http://www.holiday-weather.com/stockholm/averages/
- klon 12y ago
  Yes, this is Stockholms weak point, the weather is not very nice a large part of the year.
- sliverstorm 12y ago
  Sounds like a plus to me.
- yellowapple 12y ago
  Huge plus for me :) I already live in a place with sub-freezing temperatures half the year or more. Absolutely love it.
- PeterWhittaker 12y ago
  At or below freezing? Bah! I'll see your mild summers and chilly winters and raise you hot and humid and frikkin' cold! http://www.holiday-weather.com/ottawa/averages/ http://www.holiday-weather.com/ottawa/averages/ Stockholm is positively mild compared to Ottawa.
  - Dewie 12y ago
    Good for you, man.
rational-future 12y ago
Stockholm is not much more expensive than London really. Try Oslo and the rest of Norway for expensive - ~30% higher prices than Sweeden, Norwegians make shopping trips to Sweeden on weekends. IMHO when you're in a foreign city you don't know where to shop cheaply, so it feels more expensive than your home.
- _delirium 12y ago
  On the other hand, you could move to Copenhagen and experience the cheapest Scandinavian capital. ;-) Burgers only $20! Nice flats only $1500-2000/mo!
  - WaxProlix 12y ago
    I don't know if that's sarcasm, but you pay that in most large US cities for housing and nearly that for a burger (a nice burger, or one with a drink and a side - obviously not from McDonalds or similar).
    - _delirium 12y ago
      The rent is not bad for a nice, low-crime, walkable/bikeable, stuff-happenin' urban area, that's true. Certainly cheaper than NYC/Boston/SF. And you can pay less than $1500/mo if you're willing to go 20 minutes out on commuter rail. Eating out is pretty pricey, though, unless your reference point is Norway. You can pay $30 for a burger+beer in the U.S., but it has to be something pretty unusual. On the other hand, one reason eating out is pricey is that wages are more equal, which I generally like. As a tech person, in the U.S. things are cheap because one hour of a tech person's earnings pays for like 5-20 hours of a restaurant worker's time, but in Denmark it pays for more like 2-3 hours of their time.
      - WaxProlix 12y ago
        Well, pre-tax and tip, a burger at most sit-downy restaurants these days is 11-13 bucks, that's with no avocado bacon mushrooms whatever. Get a drink for $2.75 and with tax and tip you're at about $20, which was the originally quoted number. For what it's worth, I agree that equality in wages is a good thing.
elwell 12y ago
Yeah, he talks about free education but not taxation.
- runj__ 12y ago
  If you're in Sweden for a startup it's 20% for dividends and 30% when you're selling your stock. If you're there for a paycheck you probably won't make much more than $50k.
- _delirium 12y ago
  It depends a lot on your personal situation, but if you subtract stuff you'd otherwise have to pay for, the taxes aren't that high in Scandinavia, in my experience. For example, I pay ~35% effective income tax in Denmark, but that includes my healthcare, which in the U.S. is paid for separately. When I lived in the U.S., insurance premiums came right out of my paycheck, like taxes did, another ~10% of my income taken off the top. The balance is even more favorable if you have kids: paid paternity and maternity leave, subsidized childcare, free preschool, no saving for college, are all benefits included in that tax payment.
timdorr 12y ago
As an American, I'm not too ashamed to admit I need a reference point :) How does it compare to places like San Francisco or New York? What about cheaper places to live, such as Portland or Atlanta?
- msvan 12y ago
  Housing is more expensive in SF and NY, but most consumer goods/services are more expensive here due to the high VAT. High taxes bring other benefits, but it's always tough to part with your hard-earned quatloos. A cup of coffee will be $4-5, a beer out is somewhere around $9-10, a T-shirt might cost you $30-40. A nice flat in Stockholm will cost you $1500-2000/mo. Of course, you can always find cheaper/pricier alternatives, but these are pretty normal prices.
  - _delirium 12y ago
    Afaict the biggest problem with Stockholm flats isn't the price, but getting them at all, unless you can afford to buy one. The waiting list to rent is like 10+ years for central locations!

by nkoren 12y ago

mhp 12y ago

This could be a plus for some people, but average low temperatures are at or below freezing for half the year. source: http://www.holiday-weather.com/stockholm/averages/ http://www.holiday-weather.com/stockholm/averages/

klon 12y ago
Yes, this is Stockholms weak point, the weather is not very nice a large part of the year.
sliverstorm 12y ago
Sounds like a plus to me.
yellowapple 12y ago
Huge plus for me :) I already live in a place with sub-freezing temperatures half the year or more. Absolutely love it.
PeterWhittaker 12y ago
At or below freezing? Bah! I'll see your mild summers and chilly winters and raise you hot and humid and frikkin' cold! http://www.holiday-weather.com/ottawa/averages/ http://www.holiday-weather.com/ottawa/averages/ Stockholm is positively mild compared to Ottawa.
- Dewie 12y ago
  Good for you, man.

rational-future 12y ago

Stockholm is not much more expensive than London really. Try Oslo and the rest of Norway for expensive - ~30% higher prices than Sweeden, Norwegians make shopping trips to Sweeden on weekends. IMHO when you're in a foreign city you don't know where to shop cheaply, so it feels more expensive than your home.

_delirium 12y ago
On the other hand, you could move to Copenhagen and experience the cheapest Scandinavian capital. ;-) Burgers only $20! Nice flats only $1500-2000/mo!
- WaxProlix 12y ago
  I don't know if that's sarcasm, but you pay that in most large US cities for housing and nearly that for a burger (a nice burger, or one with a drink and a side - obviously not from McDonalds or similar).
  - _delirium 12y ago
    The rent is not bad for a nice, low-crime, walkable/bikeable, stuff-happenin' urban area, that's true. Certainly cheaper than NYC/Boston/SF. And you can pay less than $1500/mo if you're willing to go 20 minutes out on commuter rail. Eating out is pretty pricey, though, unless your reference point is Norway. You can pay $30 for a burger+beer in the U.S., but it has to be something pretty unusual. On the other hand, one reason eating out is pricey is that wages are more equal, which I generally like. As a tech person, in the U.S. things are cheap because one hour of a tech person's earnings pays for like 5-20 hours of a restaurant worker's time, but in Denmark it pays for more like 2-3 hours of their time.
    - WaxProlix 12y ago
      Well, pre-tax and tip, a burger at most sit-downy restaurants these days is 11-13 bucks, that's with no avocado bacon mushrooms whatever. Get a drink for $2.75 and with tax and tip you're at about $20, which was the originally quoted number. For what it's worth, I agree that equality in wages is a good thing.

elwell 12y ago

Yeah, he talks about free education but not taxation.

runj__ 12y ago
If you're in Sweden for a startup it's 20% for dividends and 30% when you're selling your stock. If you're there for a paycheck you probably won't make much more than $50k.
_delirium 12y ago
It depends a lot on your personal situation, but if you subtract stuff you'd otherwise have to pay for, the taxes aren't that high in Scandinavia, in my experience. For example, I pay ~35% effective income tax in Denmark, but that includes my healthcare, which in the U.S. is paid for separately. When I lived in the U.S., insurance premiums came right out of my paycheck, like taxes did, another ~10% of my income taken off the top. The balance is even more favorable if you have kids: paid paternity and maternity leave, subsidized childcare, free preschool, no saving for college, are all benefits included in that tax payment.

timdorr 12y ago

As an American, I'm not too ashamed to admit I need a reference point :) How does it compare to places like San Francisco or New York? What about cheaper places to live, such as Portland or Atlanta?

msvan 12y ago
Housing is more expensive in SF and NY, but most consumer goods/services are more expensive here due to the high VAT. High taxes bring other benefits, but it's always tough to part with your hard-earned quatloos. A cup of coffee will be $4-5, a beer out is somewhere around $9-10, a T-shirt might cost you $30-40. A nice flat in Stockholm will cost you $1500-2000/mo. Of course, you can always find cheaper/pricier alternatives, but these are pretty normal prices.
- _delirium 12y ago
  Afaict the biggest problem with Stockholm flats isn't the price, but getting them at all, unless you can afford to buy one. The waiting list to rent is like 10+ years for central locations!