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The market positioning here seems very un-Amazon. "Your margin is my opportunity" is probably my favorite Bezosism. Given that perspective and Apple's very cu

The market positioning here seems very un-Amazon. "Your margin is my opportunity" is probably my favorite Bezosism. Given that perspective and Apple's very cushy margins, I expected Amazon not to approach the market with an expensive phone packed with new features, but to approach the market from the bottom, with a good phone that is free or nearly free. The problem, of course, is that Google seems to have that segment wrapped up. Instead of competing with the iPhone, this seems to more targeted at Android -- only priced uncompetitively. The features themselves seem slightly gimmicky. I tend not to want to move my phone physically as a way to interact with apps. (Doing that figure "8" when my GPS goes out for some reason is incredibly awkward.) Searching via photos is awesome, but the only use case it seems well suited for is shopping. The built-in Genius Bar is cool, but it seems targeted toward smartphone noobs, which is oddly coupled with features targeted to smartphone pros. If I'm reading the tea leaves correctly, this will probably be a novelty, like Windows Phone, for a while to come.

the_watcher 12y ago
>> Searching via photos is awesome, but the only use case it seems well suited for is shopping. So it's useful for the single thing Amazon is most interested in encouraging.
asafira 12y ago
Why does this seem to be targeted at Android? If anything, I would say the price differential between this and good android phones reflects that it might be more an iphone competitor if anything, and so it seems to be more targeted at Apple.
- nailer 12y ago
  iPhone has the build quality though. This is rubber and glass, not metal. There's also a degree of app quality that iOS still has over Android - I'm an Android user: 'Secret', for example, only just came out, and it's very unstable. This is a mid-range smartphone at a premium price.
  - asafira 12y ago
    I could argue in the same manner about things that Amazon's phone has but the iPhone doesn't --- I just think that the people that are considering an iPhone vs. something else will consider Amazon's phone (along with the high-end expensive android phones). The price differential is a huge factor in determining what products actually compete with one another. Along the same lines, I think this also competes with the expensive android phones --- but (smart) people on the cheaper prepaid plans aren't going to consider the Amazon phone very heavily with the Nexus and Moto phones available. It's clearly not worth it for the huge markup.
  - personZ 12y ago
    iPhone has the build quality though. This is rubber and glass, not metal. "Build quality" is such a meaningless term in common usage of smartphones, and speaks to personal subjective aesthetics, not some utility of purpose. And this is all particularly interesting given that there's a good chance a significant part of the new iPhones will be made with plastic. But I'm sure it'll be a "better" plastic.
    - nailer 12y ago
      Rubber objectively ages worse than metal. Glass is objectively more fragile.
      - asafira 12y ago
        I don't think you are using "objectively" right here. It could very well be my opinion that rubber actually ages better, because it scratches far less than metal does. Subjective though. ...so build quality is hard to quantify, and in most practical cases is subjective.
        nailer 12y ago
        Objectively means facts, eg: - Rubber breaks down faster than metal - Rubber stains more than the metals you'd use in a phone - Rubber can be torn, metal can't So yes, objectively. If you drop your phone a lot, rubber might help, but you'd need more than what the Fire phone provides.
- nostromo 12y ago
  My thinking (often flawed) is that as an iPhone user, if I could buy an iPhone or a Fire Phone for the same price, there's no way I'm going with a Fire Phone just for one of these features. If, however, I was an Android user, I would consider buying the Fire Phone as a replacement device, along with similar phones like the Samsung Galaxy. You can sum up Google and Apple's market positioning in a tweet if you wanted. (Apple: premium phones, premium prices. Google: give away the software, monetize the search.) Amazon's positioning here is more vague, or perhaps nuanced.
- personZ 12y ago
  I would say the price differential between this and good android phones The Galaxy S5 is a $600 device. The HTC One is a $600 device. The LG G3 is a $600 device. The iPhone is a $600 device. I'm not seeing the price differential. However, the notion that this competes with either Android or the iPhone is utter nonsense, and we saw exactly the same noise with the Kindle Fire. People seem to have some need to try to assuage their corporate leanings that it's "someone else's problem". Only it's a smartphone. People buy smartphones, not brands, even if they have brand associations. This device, just like every device, is in the mix for people who are considering a smartphone and who don't attach their ego to a company.
  - asafira 12y ago
    Other android phones: Moto phones are <= $300, Nexus 5 is at $350. So you would say this competes with nothing though?
    - personZ 12y ago
      Other android phones: Moto phones are <= $300, Nexus 5 is at $350. You claimed that it was targeted at the iPhone based upon price, when many of the top selling Android devices are the same price as the iPhone. So you would say this competes with nothing though? I disagreed with any binary analysis of what it competes with. It doesn't compete with "either", it competes with both. People buy smartphones to provide information and value, and any possible smartphone is a potential candidate.
- Zaephyr 12y ago
  Perhaps the Fire phone is targeted a new segment that neither Android nor iPhone. People that aren't interested in the high end features of smart phones as they are now - people who might even choose a flip phone - but will spend money shopping for traditional items. Some studies say iOS users (as a whole) are more willing to spend money through their phone than other demographics, but are they willing to spend on what Amazon is selling? This seems to refer mostly to musics, apps. Cover the internet/messaging basics, offer quick & easy support, make traditional shopping easy - plus add price comparisons and you may tap a large non-tech segment.
jisaacks 12y ago
> Searching via photos is awesome, but the only use case it seems well suited for is shopping. If I was bitten by a snake, spider, etc. I'd love to be able to snap a picture to quickly identify it and know whether or not to rush to the ER.
- giarc 12y ago
  I'd probably just use my phone to call 9-1-1.
  - genericuser 12y ago
    That is fine for the occasional bite, but what if I plan on being bitten regularly?
    - peterarmstrong 12y ago
      Use Amazon Prime to ship you anti-venom in 2 days.
      - georgemcbay 12y ago
        This is one of those instances where you might want to splurge the extra $3.99 to make it overnight. Or else just use their "Subscribe and Save" system on this item.
        moinnadeem 12y ago
        What if I get bitten on a Saturday?
        Chronic28 12y ago
        Let's hope Amazon Drones deliver on Sunday
      - bwy 12y ago
        I enjoy the levity of this thread; HN sometimes takes itself too seriously!
Consultant32452 12y ago
This is interesting I think... iPad: Kindle Fire, Nexus 7 Apple TV: Kindle Fire TV, Chromecast iTunes: Amazon Prime Streaming TV + now music, Google Play iPhone: Kindle Fire Phone, Nexus 4 I think they're all playing for the same territory. The big difference seems to be that Apple really only sells the technology. Google sells the technology so that they can sell advertising for third party products. Amazon has the only complete end to end solution where they sell you the products and advertise for their own "other stuff" they sell. IMHO Amazon is going to be the big winner in the long run. Whether or not that's good for all of us is yet to be determined.
- drcode 12y ago
  You make a good point: Apple: Sell at high price, modest tie-in revenue. Google: Sell at low price, modest tie-in revenue. Amazon: Sell at low price, high tie-in revenue. It does seem like Amazon is bound to win in the long run, based on pure economics, if this trend continues.
  - IBM 12y ago
    Except it isn't being sold at a low price, and doesn't really offer anything valuable to the customer that differentiates it from the competition. The implicit deal was always the product is sold at cost so they can encourage sales on the store, why would anyone pay full price for this?
    - drcode 12y ago
      Fair enough, but I suspect the profit margins on this phone are pretty slim, given the hardware features. I think Bezos figured the high end hardware was necessary to initially break into the market.
      - evanmoran 12y ago
        Agreed. If they initially brand the Fire phone as a high-end device it will seem more valuable when they ruthlessly cut its price=).
IBM 12y ago
I agree. At a pure product level this isn't competitive with an iPhone. It's exclusive to ATT and apparently only available in the US but still priced to compete with the iPhone. They should have done something with sponsored data or subsidized it heavily for Prime customers, but as it stands this isn't a compelling offering in the market.
- amputect 12y ago
  I agree with you here; I was really surprised by the price tag, considering that over the course of a 2-year contract you're on the hook for another $200 worth of prime membership to get the most out of the features. I'm already on the edge of cancelling my Prime membership because of the problems with "2-day" shipping turning in to "3-5 day" shipping thanks to UPS Surepost being complete garbage, and I already have an Amazon Music player app on my phone. When I saw the price my enthusiasm dissipated completely. The sci-fi firefly stuff is cool and very tempting, but I don't have a strong use case for it and it's not going to drag me out of my current phone ecosystem at that price point.
  - alttab 12y ago
    You aren't a soccer mom who loves Amazon and buys everything on there because it still saves them time (even if its 4 day free shipping). Amazon Mom says there's a huge market for this sort of stuff. These Mom's have phones. Imagine the point in time where anyone with a fire phone firefly's EVERYTHING they buy, before they buy it. Cheaper from Amazon, and free "2" day shipping? Killer feature. Never pay more again. Fairly powerful for price conscious customers. Add in Spotify at $10 a month, Netflix at $10 a month ($240 a year, over $500 over the life of a 2 year contract), and you are getting the entire phone for FREE if you already have Prime. At total value, if you wanted to have a "similar" phone with similar streaming services and content providing, you'd be paying more than if you bought this $200 phone, with a data plan you most likely will already have. Looking at it that way, Amazon is paying you to use their phone. Understanding how the Prime model works, this makes a shit load of sense.
    - cwyers 12y ago
gdilla 12y ago
Then again, it could be more about software and services than just hardware. They've offered a competent competitor to high end smartphones to be sure, but they've also extended and bolstered the Amazon ecosystem with Firefly. I don't think it would share the same fate as Windows Phone, because it is still largely an Android phone and switching from samsung android to Fire won't be as costly. At the same time, it has some interesting features to compete with Apple as well. Windows Phone models never had that much differentiation, and on top of that. its metro UI was a big change for smartphone users that didn't gain traction.
hershel 12y ago
Maybe the reason amazon prices that way, is that it's really expensive ? It seems that the most expensive thing here would be the mayday service. And maybe it's the killer feature here? One big reason why seniors buy the iphone is that there are classes in the apple store which help them learn to use the device and overcome their fear of tech.So mayday could work well for that segment. Also, many tech people hate coming home after work and doing tech support for their family. They could have a strong influence on their family members phone purchase decision. And i'm sure amazon has got data from their mayday on tablet to estimate the value of mayday.
- antidaily 12y ago
  Mayday response times are excellent, apparently. I can see it's value with older people not used to smartphones.
- natch 12y ago
  Another reason seniors buy the iPhone is that they have gained some limited amount of wisdom, and one thing some of them have learned is that buying crap usually ends up being a waste of money.
maxerickson 12y ago
Are the very low margin phone customers desirable media customers? When I look at my low margin phone and service and almost non existent media consumption (nothing beyond shared cable or free streaming), I sort of doubt it.
localhost 12y ago
Prime customers are Amazon's highest spending customers. They, according to this report[1], spend more than 2x what non-Prime customers spend - $1340 / year. Prime customers aren't likely to be swayed by a low-cost, budget phone. So it makes sense for them to tie their premium Fire Phone to this segment of their customer base. This also doesn't mean they can't do a budget phone later. [1] http://bgr.com/2013/12/17/amazon-prime-spending-study-cirp/ http://bgr.com/2013/12/17/amazon-prime-spending-study-cirp/
- georgemcbay 12y ago
  Only one data point, but I'm a Prime customer that spends significantly more than $1340 a year on Amazon and I have a Nexus 5 which costs just a little more than half what this Amazon phone costs. I don't need a "budget" phone, I can afford something much higher-end; but I still like to get value for price and in the face of the Nexus 5, the Moto G, the Moto E or the Lumia 635 all of which cost half or even less than a quarter of the price of the the Amazon Fire phone, it just doesn't look like a good value to me. YMMV if the 3D perspective thing is that appealing to you, or you want a cellphone with a relatively very good camera, but neither of these are particularly important to me.
  - chris_mahan 12y ago
    Same here.
jrells 12y ago
It might be a flagship device to attract attention (gimmicky new features for differentiation) and pave the way for lower cost phones. Mayday is a great strategy too, I've always wondered why so few companies go after the tech-illiterate market.
- Someone 12y ago
  A risk with that strategy is that it may only get you the tech-illiterate market because the other potential customers think your stuff is for idiots and don't want to look stupid. With Mayday, I think there is another side to that risk: if they only get the market segment of customers who use Mayday a lot, that can get expensive, especially since they promise "Help in 15 seconds or less" (they do weasel out of that a bit by stating that is the goal, but if it comes to a court case, I doubt that will fully absolve them if average response time is, say, 30 seconds)
jldugger 12y ago
> I expected Amazon not to approach the market with an expensive phone packed with new features, but to approach the market from the bottom, with a good phone that is free or nearly free. It'd make sense to price the phone high at release, both to maximize revenues and establish the phone as expensive ('good' in consumer's minds), and then slowly mark the price down while your supply chain ramps up.
kudu 12y ago
> The problem, of course, is that Google seems to have that segment wrapped up. No, there's still place for a great, cheap phone that's aimed at the consumer market rather than the geeks or the developers who usually buy Nexus devices.
- psbp 12y ago
  He might be talking about the Moto G or E. The Nexus 5 is more mid-tier.
mcphilip 12y ago
>If I'm reading the tea leaves correctly, this will probably be a novelty, like Windows Phone, for a while to come. Agreed. I'm having trouble visualizing how it moves from being novelty to being ubiquitous. I purchased one of the original Kindles back when it was a novelty, but I understand why it became the dominant eInk device since it was a novelty item with little to no competition. For the Fire, it's a novelty with stiff competition from the beginning. As someone who rarely shops on Amazon and doesn't want a Prime subscription, why would I chose this phone? Maybe the answer is Amazon doesn't expect this product to take off fast. Maybe it's a much longer term play initially targeted just to those already comfortably engaged in its ecosystem.
- crucifiction 12y ago
  > As someone who rarely shops on Amazon and doesn't want a Prime subscription, why would I chose this phone? Uhh, you probably shouldn't and wouldn't. The smartphone market is a huge place, maybe they are just not trying to sell you this one?
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
mreiland 12y ago
It depends on what they use the movements for. If it allows me to navigate more things with a single hand without me looking like a white man trying to boogy down, then I'm all for it. edit: plus, if they really have strong kindle/amazon streaming, they could be looking to try and take some of hulu/netflix's thunder.
meowface 12y ago
I agree that the dynamic perspective and angle detection just seems like a gimmick. The 2 serious uses for it I can see are: * Scrolling through things by tilting the phone. Personally I think this seems like a useful feature. * Playing certain mobile games. For general use, I don't think it'd be that helpful or aesthetically appealing other than "oh that looks cool". I don't really see the purpose of it when looking at maps, or especially looking at your home screen... In fact I imagine many people may find it annoying in many of the phone views.
- greenpresident 12y ago
  There have been a few apps with tilt scrolling such as instapaper, kindle, etc. Mostly reading apps. If found them impractical as I tend to read at a pretty small area of the screen, constantly adjusting the text so my reading area is at the top. I tried tilting but it never felt as natural as just keeping my thumb in position to scroll.
mst 12y ago
My suspicion is that the pricing is to intentionally depress sales initially while they work out supporting a phone at scale, since this is a new segment for them.
hrjet 12y ago
> Doing that figure "8" when my GPS goes out for some reason is incredibly awkward. Is that some sort of recognized gesture on your phone, or is it a way to calibrate a sensor? Typically, the figure 8 is used to calibrate the magnetometer, but I can't see how it would help GPS.
Pitarou 12y ago
I think Amazon are taking the "learn as you go down market" approach exemplified by Tesla. This is the pilot model, which enables Amazon to earn revenue fast and capture early adopter surplus. We'll soon see a cheaper model with the more lavish and underused features trimmed, and other features much improved thanks to real world testing of the first model.
- r00fus 12y ago
  Is applying the Tesla business model applicable in a case where the product doesn't cause you to salivate? Seems for each interested buyer, I see ten who are more like "meh". Perhaps a rigorous demo of the phone's features would highlight it's "must-have" features.
  - Pitarou 12y ago
    There's still plenty of time to generate a buzz. I'll wait until I've heard the opinion of a few reputable reviewers before I consider it writing it off as an "also ran".

the_watcher 12y ago

>> Searching via photos is awesome, but the only use case it seems well suited for is shopping. So it's useful for the single thing Amazon is most interested in encouraging.

asafira 12y ago

Why does this seem to be targeted at Android? If anything, I would say the price differential between this and good android phones reflects that it might be more an iphone competitor if anything, and so it seems to be more targeted at Apple.

nailer 12y ago
iPhone has the build quality though. This is rubber and glass, not metal. There's also a degree of app quality that iOS still has over Android - I'm an Android user: 'Secret', for example, only just came out, and it's very unstable. This is a mid-range smartphone at a premium price.
- asafira 12y ago
  I could argue in the same manner about things that Amazon's phone has but the iPhone doesn't --- I just think that the people that are considering an iPhone vs. something else will consider Amazon's phone (along with the high-end expensive android phones). The price differential is a huge factor in determining what products actually compete with one another. Along the same lines, I think this also competes with the expensive android phones --- but (smart) people on the cheaper prepaid plans aren't going to consider the Amazon phone very heavily with the Nexus and Moto phones available. It's clearly not worth it for the huge markup.
- personZ 12y ago
  iPhone has the build quality though. This is rubber and glass, not metal. "Build quality" is such a meaningless term in common usage of smartphones, and speaks to personal subjective aesthetics, not some utility of purpose. And this is all particularly interesting given that there's a good chance a significant part of the new iPhones will be made with plastic. But I'm sure it'll be a "better" plastic.
  - nailer 12y ago
    Rubber objectively ages worse than metal. Glass is objectively more fragile.
    - asafira 12y ago
      I don't think you are using "objectively" right here. It could very well be my opinion that rubber actually ages better, because it scratches far less than metal does. Subjective though. ...so build quality is hard to quantify, and in most practical cases is subjective.
      - nailer 12y ago
        Objectively means facts, eg: - Rubber breaks down faster than metal - Rubber stains more than the metals you'd use in a phone - Rubber can be torn, metal can't So yes, objectively. If you drop your phone a lot, rubber might help, but you'd need more than what the Fire phone provides.
nostromo 12y ago
My thinking (often flawed) is that as an iPhone user, if I could buy an iPhone or a Fire Phone for the same price, there's no way I'm going with a Fire Phone just for one of these features. If, however, I was an Android user, I would consider buying the Fire Phone as a replacement device, along with similar phones like the Samsung Galaxy. You can sum up Google and Apple's market positioning in a tweet if you wanted. (Apple: premium phones, premium prices. Google: give away the software, monetize the search.) Amazon's positioning here is more vague, or perhaps nuanced.
personZ 12y ago
I would say the price differential between this and good android phones The Galaxy S5 is a $600 device. The HTC One is a $600 device. The LG G3 is a $600 device. The iPhone is a $600 device. I'm not seeing the price differential. However, the notion that this competes with either Android or the iPhone is utter nonsense, and we saw exactly the same noise with the Kindle Fire. People seem to have some need to try to assuage their corporate leanings that it's "someone else's problem". Only it's a smartphone. People buy smartphones, not brands, even if they have brand associations. This device, just like every device, is in the mix for people who are considering a smartphone and who don't attach their ego to a company.
- asafira 12y ago
  Other android phones: Moto phones are <= $300, Nexus 5 is at $350. So you would say this competes with nothing though?
  - personZ 12y ago
    Other android phones: Moto phones are <= $300, Nexus 5 is at $350. You claimed that it was targeted at the iPhone based upon price, when many of the top selling Android devices are the same price as the iPhone. So you would say this competes with nothing though? I disagreed with any binary analysis of what it competes with. It doesn't compete with "either", it competes with both. People buy smartphones to provide information and value, and any possible smartphone is a potential candidate.
Zaephyr 12y ago
Perhaps the Fire phone is targeted a new segment that neither Android nor iPhone. People that aren't interested in the high end features of smart phones as they are now - people who might even choose a flip phone - but will spend money shopping for traditional items. Some studies say iOS users (as a whole) are more willing to spend money through their phone than other demographics, but are they willing to spend on what Amazon is selling? This seems to refer mostly to musics, apps. Cover the internet/messaging basics, offer quick & easy support, make traditional shopping easy - plus add price comparisons and you may tap a large non-tech segment.

jisaacks 12y ago

> Searching via photos is awesome, but the only use case it seems well suited for is shopping. If I was bitten by a snake, spider, etc. I'd love to be able to snap a picture to quickly identify it and know whether or not to rush to the ER.

giarc 12y ago
I'd probably just use my phone to call 9-1-1.
- genericuser 12y ago
  That is fine for the occasional bite, but what if I plan on being bitten regularly?
  - peterarmstrong 12y ago
    Use Amazon Prime to ship you anti-venom in 2 days.
    - georgemcbay 12y ago
      This is one of those instances where you might want to splurge the extra $3.99 to make it overnight. Or else just use their "Subscribe and Save" system on this item.
      - moinnadeem 12y ago
        What if I get bitten on a Saturday?
        Chronic28 12y ago
        Let's hope Amazon Drones deliver on Sunday
    - bwy 12y ago
      I enjoy the levity of this thread; HN sometimes takes itself too seriously!

Consultant32452 12y ago

This is interesting I think... iPad: Kindle Fire, Nexus 7 Apple TV: Kindle Fire TV, Chromecast iTunes: Amazon Prime Streaming TV + now music, Google Play iPhone: Kindle Fire Phone, Nexus 4 I think they're all playing for the same territory. The big difference seems to be that Apple really only sells the technology. Google sells the technology so that they can sell advertising for third party products. Amazon has the only complete end to end solution where they sell you the products and advertise for their own "other stuff" they sell. IMHO Amazon is going to be the big winner in the long run. Whether or not that's good for all of us is yet to be determined.

drcode 12y ago
You make a good point: Apple: Sell at high price, modest tie-in revenue. Google: Sell at low price, modest tie-in revenue. Amazon: Sell at low price, high tie-in revenue. It does seem like Amazon is bound to win in the long run, based on pure economics, if this trend continues.
- IBM 12y ago
  Except it isn't being sold at a low price, and doesn't really offer anything valuable to the customer that differentiates it from the competition. The implicit deal was always the product is sold at cost so they can encourage sales on the store, why would anyone pay full price for this?
  - drcode 12y ago
    Fair enough, but I suspect the profit margins on this phone are pretty slim, given the hardware features. I think Bezos figured the high end hardware was necessary to initially break into the market.
    - evanmoran 12y ago
      Agreed. If they initially brand the Fire phone as a high-end device it will seem more valuable when they ruthlessly cut its price=).

IBM 12y ago

I agree. At a pure product level this isn't competitive with an iPhone. It's exclusive to ATT and apparently only available in the US but still priced to compete with the iPhone. They should have done something with sponsored data or subsidized it heavily for Prime customers, but as it stands this isn't a compelling offering in the market.

amputect 12y ago
I agree with you here; I was really surprised by the price tag, considering that over the course of a 2-year contract you're on the hook for another $200 worth of prime membership to get the most out of the features. I'm already on the edge of cancelling my Prime membership because of the problems with "2-day" shipping turning in to "3-5 day" shipping thanks to UPS Surepost being complete garbage, and I already have an Amazon Music player app on my phone. When I saw the price my enthusiasm dissipated completely. The sci-fi firefly stuff is cool and very tempting, but I don't have a strong use case for it and it's not going to drag me out of my current phone ecosystem at that price point.
- alttab 12y ago
  You aren't a soccer mom who loves Amazon and buys everything on there because it still saves them time (even if its 4 day free shipping). Amazon Mom says there's a huge market for this sort of stuff. These Mom's have phones. Imagine the point in time where anyone with a fire phone firefly's EVERYTHING they buy, before they buy it. Cheaper from Amazon, and free "2" day shipping? Killer feature. Never pay more again. Fairly powerful for price conscious customers. Add in Spotify at $10 a month, Netflix at $10 a month ($240 a year, over $500 over the life of a 2 year contract), and you are getting the entire phone for FREE if you already have Prime. At total value, if you wanted to have a "similar" phone with similar streaming services and content providing, you'd be paying more than if you bought this $200 phone, with a data plan you most likely will already have. Looking at it that way, Amazon is paying you to use their phone. Understanding how the Prime model works, this makes a shit load of sense.
  - cwyers 12y ago

gdilla 12y ago

Then again, it could be more about software and services than just hardware. They've offered a competent competitor to high end smartphones to be sure, but they've also extended and bolstered the Amazon ecosystem with Firefly. I don't think it would share the same fate as Windows Phone, because it is still largely an Android phone and switching from samsung android to Fire won't be as costly. At the same time, it has some interesting features to compete with Apple as well. Windows Phone models never had that much differentiation, and on top of that. its metro UI was a big change for smartphone users that didn't gain traction.

hershel 12y ago

Maybe the reason amazon prices that way, is that it's really expensive ? It seems that the most expensive thing here would be the mayday service. And maybe it's the killer feature here? One big reason why seniors buy the iphone is that there are classes in the apple store which help them learn to use the device and overcome their fear of tech.So mayday could work well for that segment. Also, many tech people hate coming home after work and doing tech support for their family. They could have a strong influence on their family members phone purchase decision. And i'm sure amazon has got data from their mayday on tablet to estimate the value of mayday.

antidaily 12y ago
Mayday response times are excellent, apparently. I can see it's value with older people not used to smartphones.
natch 12y ago
Another reason seniors buy the iPhone is that they have gained some limited amount of wisdom, and one thing some of them have learned is that buying crap usually ends up being a waste of money.

maxerickson 12y ago

Are the very low margin phone customers desirable media customers? When I look at my low margin phone and service and almost non existent media consumption (nothing beyond shared cable or free streaming), I sort of doubt it.

localhost 12y ago

Prime customers are Amazon's highest spending customers. They, according to this report[1], spend more than 2x what non-Prime customers spend - $1340 / year. Prime customers aren't likely to be swayed by a low-cost, budget phone. So it makes sense for them to tie their premium Fire Phone to this segment of their customer base. This also doesn't mean they can't do a budget phone later. [1] http://bgr.com/2013/12/17/amazon-prime-spending-study-cirp/ http://bgr.com/2013/12/17/amazon-prime-spending-study-cirp/

georgemcbay 12y ago
Only one data point, but I'm a Prime customer that spends significantly more than $1340 a year on Amazon and I have a Nexus 5 which costs just a little more than half what this Amazon phone costs. I don't need a "budget" phone, I can afford something much higher-end; but I still like to get value for price and in the face of the Nexus 5, the Moto G, the Moto E or the Lumia 635 all of which cost half or even less than a quarter of the price of the the Amazon Fire phone, it just doesn't look like a good value to me. YMMV if the 3D perspective thing is that appealing to you, or you want a cellphone with a relatively very good camera, but neither of these are particularly important to me.
- chris_mahan 12y ago
  Same here.

jrells 12y ago

It might be a flagship device to attract attention (gimmicky new features for differentiation) and pave the way for lower cost phones. Mayday is a great strategy too, I've always wondered why so few companies go after the tech-illiterate market.

Someone 12y ago
A risk with that strategy is that it may only get you the tech-illiterate market because the other potential customers think your stuff is for idiots and don't want to look stupid. With Mayday, I think there is another side to that risk: if they only get the market segment of customers who use Mayday a lot, that can get expensive, especially since they promise "Help in 15 seconds or less" (they do weasel out of that a bit by stating that is the goal, but if it comes to a court case, I doubt that will fully absolve them if average response time is, say, 30 seconds)

jldugger 12y ago

> I expected Amazon not to approach the market with an expensive phone packed with new features, but to approach the market from the bottom, with a good phone that is free or nearly free. It'd make sense to price the phone high at release, both to maximize revenues and establish the phone as expensive ('good' in consumer's minds), and then slowly mark the price down while your supply chain ramps up.

kudu 12y ago

> The problem, of course, is that Google seems to have that segment wrapped up. No, there's still place for a great, cheap phone that's aimed at the consumer market rather than the geeks or the developers who usually buy Nexus devices.

psbp 12y ago
He might be talking about the Moto G or E. The Nexus 5 is more mid-tier.

mcphilip 12y ago

>If I'm reading the tea leaves correctly, this will probably be a novelty, like Windows Phone, for a while to come. Agreed. I'm having trouble visualizing how it moves from being novelty to being ubiquitous. I purchased one of the original Kindles back when it was a novelty, but I understand why it became the dominant eInk device since it was a novelty item with little to no competition. For the Fire, it's a novelty with stiff competition from the beginning. As someone who rarely shops on Amazon and doesn't want a Prime subscription, why would I chose this phone? Maybe the answer is Amazon doesn't expect this product to take off fast. Maybe it's a much longer term play initially targeted just to those already comfortably engaged in its ecosystem.

crucifiction 12y ago
> As someone who rarely shops on Amazon and doesn't want a Prime subscription, why would I chose this phone? Uhh, you probably shouldn't and wouldn't. The smartphone market is a huge place, maybe they are just not trying to sell you this one?

deleted 12y ago

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mreiland 12y ago

It depends on what they use the movements for. If it allows me to navigate more things with a single hand without me looking like a white man trying to boogy down, then I'm all for it. edit: plus, if they really have strong kindle/amazon streaming, they could be looking to try and take some of hulu/netflix's thunder.

meowface 12y ago

I agree that the dynamic perspective and angle detection just seems like a gimmick. The 2 serious uses for it I can see are: * Scrolling through things by tilting the phone. Personally I think this seems like a useful feature. * Playing certain mobile games. For general use, I don't think it'd be that helpful or aesthetically appealing other than "oh that looks cool". I don't really see the purpose of it when looking at maps, or especially looking at your home screen... In fact I imagine many people may find it annoying in many of the phone views.

greenpresident 12y ago
There have been a few apps with tilt scrolling such as instapaper, kindle, etc. Mostly reading apps. If found them impractical as I tend to read at a pretty small area of the screen, constantly adjusting the text so my reading area is at the top. I tried tilting but it never felt as natural as just keeping my thumb in position to scroll.

mst 12y ago

My suspicion is that the pricing is to intentionally depress sales initially while they work out supporting a phone at scale, since this is a new segment for them.

hrjet 12y ago

> Doing that figure "8" when my GPS goes out for some reason is incredibly awkward. Is that some sort of recognized gesture on your phone, or is it a way to calibrate a sensor? Typically, the figure 8 is used to calibrate the magnetometer, but I can't see how it would help GPS.

Pitarou 12y ago

I think Amazon are taking the "learn as you go down market" approach exemplified by Tesla. This is the pilot model, which enables Amazon to earn revenue fast and capture early adopter surplus. We'll soon see a cheaper model with the more lavish and underused features trimmed, and other features much improved thanks to real world testing of the first model.

r00fus 12y ago
Is applying the Tesla business model applicable in a case where the product doesn't cause you to salivate? Seems for each interested buyer, I see ten who are more like "meh". Perhaps a rigorous demo of the phone's features would highlight it's "must-have" features.
- Pitarou 12y ago
  There's still plenty of time to generate a buzz. I'll wait until I've heard the opinion of a few reputable reviewers before I consider it writing it off as an "also ran".