6 ms·

ETA: Building the World's Fastest Bike

54 points by yurisagalov 12y ago

FigBug 12y ago
I talked to Sam Whittingham briefly after his speed record fell last September. 133.78 km/h beat his old record by 0.6 km/h. I think his record stood for about 13 years. He says now it all comes down to the tires, they are the one component that takes major money to custom make. Nobody makes tires for 133km/h bicycles. As long as everybody is using the same tires, nobody is going to go significantly faster. Hopefully they've found a source for high speed tires.
- Shivetya 12y ago
  My searching is apparently lackluster, what are materials used in tires for this application? Other than speed ratings, what other issue is most costly in creating these tires?
  - CaveTech 12y ago
    I'd imagine it's finding a manufacturer who has the means to mold them who's also willing to create a super limited run.
  - Theodores 12y ago
    Tyres were actually pretty good in the days of Dunlop when they made them from natural rubber and cotton. They were state of the art for the time then they made the strategic decision to get out of cycle tyres and concentrate on other aspects of their business. Modern tyres come in 700c racing bike size with a few specials at 650c, to get something small wheeled is not off the shelf. A normal bike, e.g Tour de France, needs things like grip and puncture resilience rather than just low rolling resistance. This applies to the track too. The actual market for specialist, i.e. tubular, bike tyres is minuscule compared to regular bike tyres, to all intents and purposes it is cottage industry stuff.
Gravityloss 12y ago
The logo has the bike going left. This is against visual conventions and it seems backwards.
scythe 12y ago
While this seems to be a really cool research project, it mostly made me curious if something like this could ever be available as a consumer product -- i.e. an aerodynamic, safe recumbent. I'm guessing the "catch" is that ultralight materials are expensive and the design doesn't really help much on a hill. It seems like it might work well alongside something like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NuVinci_Continuously_Variable_Transmission http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NuVinci_Continuously_Variable_T...
- maxerickson 12y ago
  You also tend to want to turn, so you can't have all that tight an envelope for a casual or commuter bike.
- tromp 12y ago
  Velotilt is a very interesting tilting velomobile design meant for practical use and with potential commercialization in mind http://bicycledesign.net/2012/10/velotilt-design-of-a-low-drag-practical-velomobile/ http://bicycledesign.net/2012/10/velotilt-design-of-a-low-dr... Its progress is detailed (in Dutch) on Wim Schermer's site http://wimschermer.blogspot.nl/search/label/Velotilt http://wimschermer.blogspot.nl/search/label/Velotilt
- mesofile 12y ago
  Neither the material costs nor the gearing system are barriers. You can put a fairing on your recumbent bike today [1] although to get a fully enclosed shell you'd have to go custom. The market doesn't support fully enclosed bikes, recumbent or otherwise, because they're not practical. The same principle that makes a fully faired bike fast on a closed course would make it a nightmare to ride in open traffic with moderate crosswinds and/or sunny, warm conditions. [1] https://t-cycle.com/-ezp-16.html https://t-cycle.com/-ezp-16.html
  - Someone 12y ago
    Even ignoring that, you will need assistance to get in and out of these recumbents. For examples, look at the various "catch practice" videos at http://www.hptdelft.nl/en/index.php?option=com_youtubegallery&view=gallery&Itemid=56 http://www.hptdelft.nl/en/index.php?option=com_youtubegaller... (the current world record honderd, if I am not mistaken) Three wheels might make these things more practical, but apparently, that doesn't make them faster.
grecy 12y ago
> Our human-engine will produce only 1 horsepower I thought an Olympic athlete at full-tilt with arms and legs could only put out 0.75 horsepower?
- Fuzzwah 12y ago
  For their Atlas human powered helicopter, their pilot had an average output of 772 watts (or 1.035 horsepower) for 1 minute. "At 772 Watts for 1 minute, our pilot’s power output exceeds the power requirements of the helicopter by a safe margin." From: http://www.aerovelo.com/projects/helicopter/tech-info/ http://www.aerovelo.com/projects/helicopter/tech-info/
- curveship 12y ago
  It depends very heavily on duration. According to the power charts they published from their earlier human-powered helicopter, their rider put out about a horsepower for the 1 minute flight duration.
- icegreentea 12y ago
  It depends on the timespan required. Can take a look here: https://www.princeton.edu/~maelabs/hpt/pro/human_3.htm https://www.princeton.edu/~maelabs/hpt/pro/human_3.htm One HP is 750 Watts, which looks like roughly 20-30 seconds of endurance for a 'first class athlete', which should be enough time for this.
  - amcnett 12y ago
    Top flight professional cyclists with larger muscle mass (relative to their more slightly-built counterparts) can produce watts in that range for several minutes. See: http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/racing/tour-of-flanders/pave-power-119743 http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/racing/tour-of-flanders/pave-... The best track sprinters are in the 2000w for several seconds range.
- Someone 12y ago
  http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower#History_of_the_unit http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower#History_of_the_uni... states: "a healthy human can produce about 1.2 hp briefly and sustain about 0.1 hp indefinitely; trained athletes can manage up to about 2.5 hp briefly and 0.3 hp for a period of several hours." And for those who wonder how a human can be stronger than a horse: peak output of a horse is way higher than 1 hp ("The peak power over a few seconds has been measured to be as high as 14.9 hp.")
cpks 12y ago
I don't see why I'd want to pay for this. It doesn't change the world in any way. Bringing something fast and practical to the masses would be a different story, but this doesn't move technology in that direction. It's just paying for some kids to make it into Guinness....
- lelf 12y ago
  > It doesn't change the world in any way It changes it far more than yet another cool ninja JS framework for chatting with people near you
- quchen 12y ago
  The backers fund something they think is interesting, and they're certainly aware of that. Most big inventions started as seemingly useless projects that required lots of money. Sure, this is as far away as the Wright brothers from a transatlantic passenger jet, but with foundational research, you never know where you end up. If it runs this fast with a human, imagine hooking a small motor to it. How far could you travel with one liter? How about a pedelec version to get a semi-long-distance consumer bike? Could you maybe put the thing on rails and have human-powered trains or trams?
- UweSchmidt 12y ago
  Best argument would be that SpaceX et. al. are specifically looking for people with experience at engineering competitions, so it seems there is something special about these kinds of projects. http://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2014/05/06/can-i-get-a-job-at-spacex-after-graduating-from-a-low-ranked-engineering-program/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2014/05/06/can-i-get-a-job...
155224 12y ago
Thought that Guy Martin already broke that speed record on his TV show https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT0eJXtrwHg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT0eJXtrwHg
- AeroVelo 12y ago
  That speed was paced behind a vehicle, which is not the same record we're going for. In fact, that record has very little to do with the power of the human or efficient engineering design.
Theodores 12y ago
I don't see why this is being done on KickStarter. Surely a soft drinks company or even a bicycle company would be able to find the $30K without too much effort? Even a relatively small company supplying cycling components/accessories could find the money for this. If naming rights are part of the deal and there is a chance of getting into the Guinness Book of Records, then some sponsor outside the bicycle trade should be easily findable, particularly given the size of the advert space presented by the aero-fairing. Even the rights to a TV show about this would cover the $30K (maybe they have bagged that already). Maybe they are ideologically opposed to sponsorship and don't want to be a 'Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro' (that was the official F1 name for the Ferrari team as recently as 2011). Or perhaps Kickstarter has worked for them in the past and it is now their goto for $$$. Regardless, this particular project is crying out for sponsorship money rather than Kickstarter.
- GregBuchholz 12y ago
  ...A more mundane reason might be that everyone knows about Kickstarter and how it works, but not everyone has experience of getting sponsorships from large beverage companies, or knows an insider to get a TV show deal.
- Throwaway0812 12y ago
  Agreed, this is asking for a Redbull sponsorship, and 30k is a drop in the bucket for them. Toss a Redbull sticker on the side, and put a few Redbull signs or flags along the route, and call it a day.
- AeroVelo 12y ago
  Hi Theodores. We are in the process of finding and obtaining sponsors from other companies. As mentioned in the Kickstarter story, the total cost for this project is actually around $120K, and we are only using Kickstarter to cover a portion of that cost. Also, the amount of space available for advertisement is not as large as you think - adding stickers to the front portion of the fairing would increase the drag. (Notice the location of the stickers in the photo of Bluenose in the Kickstarter story)
  - 12y ago

54 points by yurisagalov 12y ago

I talked to Sam Whittingham briefly after his speed record fell last September. 133.78 km/h beat his old record by 0.6 km/h. I think his record stood for about 13 years. He says now it all comes down to the tires, they are the one component that takes major money to custom make. Nobody makes tires for 133km/h bicycles. As long as everybody is using the same tires, nobody is going to go significantly faster. Hopefully they've found a source for high speed tires.

Shivetya 12y ago
My searching is apparently lackluster, what are materials used in tires for this application? Other than speed ratings, what other issue is most costly in creating these tires?
- CaveTech 12y ago
  I'd imagine it's finding a manufacturer who has the means to mold them who's also willing to create a super limited run.
- Theodores 12y ago
  Tyres were actually pretty good in the days of Dunlop when they made them from natural rubber and cotton. They were state of the art for the time then they made the strategic decision to get out of cycle tyres and concentrate on other aspects of their business. Modern tyres come in 700c racing bike size with a few specials at 650c, to get something small wheeled is not off the shelf. A normal bike, e.g Tour de France, needs things like grip and puncture resilience rather than just low rolling resistance. This applies to the track too. The actual market for specialist, i.e. tubular, bike tyres is minuscule compared to regular bike tyres, to all intents and purposes it is cottage industry stuff.

Gravityloss 12y ago

The logo has the bike going left. This is against visual conventions and it seems backwards.

scythe 12y ago

While this seems to be a really cool research project, it mostly made me curious if something like this could ever be available as a consumer product -- i.e. an aerodynamic, safe recumbent. I'm guessing the "catch" is that ultralight materials are expensive and the design doesn't really help much on a hill. It seems like it might work well alongside something like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NuVinci_Continuously_Variable_Transmission http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NuVinci_Continuously_Variable_T...

maxerickson 12y ago
You also tend to want to turn, so you can't have all that tight an envelope for a casual or commuter bike.
tromp 12y ago
Velotilt is a very interesting tilting velomobile design meant for practical use and with potential commercialization in mind http://bicycledesign.net/2012/10/velotilt-design-of-a-low-drag-practical-velomobile/ http://bicycledesign.net/2012/10/velotilt-design-of-a-low-dr... Its progress is detailed (in Dutch) on Wim Schermer's site http://wimschermer.blogspot.nl/search/label/Velotilt http://wimschermer.blogspot.nl/search/label/Velotilt
mesofile 12y ago
Neither the material costs nor the gearing system are barriers. You can put a fairing on your recumbent bike today [1] although to get a fully enclosed shell you'd have to go custom. The market doesn't support fully enclosed bikes, recumbent or otherwise, because they're not practical. The same principle that makes a fully faired bike fast on a closed course would make it a nightmare to ride in open traffic with moderate crosswinds and/or sunny, warm conditions. [1] https://t-cycle.com/-ezp-16.html https://t-cycle.com/-ezp-16.html
- Someone 12y ago
  Even ignoring that, you will need assistance to get in and out of these recumbents. For examples, look at the various "catch practice" videos at http://www.hptdelft.nl/en/index.php?option=com_youtubegallery&view=gallery&Itemid=56 http://www.hptdelft.nl/en/index.php?option=com_youtubegaller... (the current world record honderd, if I am not mistaken) Three wheels might make these things more practical, but apparently, that doesn't make them faster.

grecy 12y ago

> Our human-engine will produce only 1 horsepower I thought an Olympic athlete at full-tilt with arms and legs could only put out 0.75 horsepower?

Fuzzwah 12y ago
For their Atlas human powered helicopter, their pilot had an average output of 772 watts (or 1.035 horsepower) for 1 minute. "At 772 Watts for 1 minute, our pilot’s power output exceeds the power requirements of the helicopter by a safe margin." From: http://www.aerovelo.com/projects/helicopter/tech-info/ http://www.aerovelo.com/projects/helicopter/tech-info/
curveship 12y ago
It depends very heavily on duration. According to the power charts they published from their earlier human-powered helicopter, their rider put out about a horsepower for the 1 minute flight duration.
icegreentea 12y ago
It depends on the timespan required. Can take a look here: https://www.princeton.edu/~maelabs/hpt/pro/human_3.htm https://www.princeton.edu/~maelabs/hpt/pro/human_3.htm One HP is 750 Watts, which looks like roughly 20-30 seconds of endurance for a 'first class athlete', which should be enough time for this.
- amcnett 12y ago
  Top flight professional cyclists with larger muscle mass (relative to their more slightly-built counterparts) can produce watts in that range for several minutes. See: http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/racing/tour-of-flanders/pave-power-119743 http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/racing/tour-of-flanders/pave-... The best track sprinters are in the 2000w for several seconds range.
Someone 12y ago
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower#History_of_the_unit http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower#History_of_the_uni... states: "a healthy human can produce about 1.2 hp briefly and sustain about 0.1 hp indefinitely; trained athletes can manage up to about 2.5 hp briefly and 0.3 hp for a period of several hours." And for those who wonder how a human can be stronger than a horse: peak output of a horse is way higher than 1 hp ("The peak power over a few seconds has been measured to be as high as 14.9 hp.")

cpks 12y ago

I don't see why I'd want to pay for this. It doesn't change the world in any way. Bringing something fast and practical to the masses would be a different story, but this doesn't move technology in that direction. It's just paying for some kids to make it into Guinness....

lelf 12y ago
> It doesn't change the world in any way It changes it far more than yet another cool ninja JS framework for chatting with people near you
quchen 12y ago
The backers fund something they think is interesting, and they're certainly aware of that. Most big inventions started as seemingly useless projects that required lots of money. Sure, this is as far away as the Wright brothers from a transatlantic passenger jet, but with foundational research, you never know where you end up. If it runs this fast with a human, imagine hooking a small motor to it. How far could you travel with one liter? How about a pedelec version to get a semi-long-distance consumer bike? Could you maybe put the thing on rails and have human-powered trains or trams?
UweSchmidt 12y ago
Best argument would be that SpaceX et. al. are specifically looking for people with experience at engineering competitions, so it seems there is something special about these kinds of projects. http://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2014/05/06/can-i-get-a-job-at-spacex-after-graduating-from-a-low-ranked-engineering-program/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2014/05/06/can-i-get-a-job...

155224 12y ago

Thought that Guy Martin already broke that speed record on his TV show https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT0eJXtrwHg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT0eJXtrwHg

AeroVelo 12y ago
That speed was paced behind a vehicle, which is not the same record we're going for. In fact, that record has very little to do with the power of the human or efficient engineering design.

Theodores 12y ago

I don't see why this is being done on KickStarter. Surely a soft drinks company or even a bicycle company would be able to find the $30K without too much effort? Even a relatively small company supplying cycling components/accessories could find the money for this. If naming rights are part of the deal and there is a chance of getting into the Guinness Book of Records, then some sponsor outside the bicycle trade should be easily findable, particularly given the size of the advert space presented by the aero-fairing. Even the rights to a TV show about this would cover the $30K (maybe they have bagged that already). Maybe they are ideologically opposed to sponsorship and don't want to be a 'Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro' (that was the official F1 name for the Ferrari team as recently as 2011). Or perhaps Kickstarter has worked for them in the past and it is now their goto for $$$. Regardless, this particular project is crying out for sponsorship money rather than Kickstarter.

GregBuchholz 12y ago
...A more mundane reason might be that everyone knows about Kickstarter and how it works, but not everyone has experience of getting sponsorships from large beverage companies, or knows an insider to get a TV show deal.
Throwaway0812 12y ago
Agreed, this is asking for a Redbull sponsorship, and 30k is a drop in the bucket for them. Toss a Redbull sticker on the side, and put a few Redbull signs or flags along the route, and call it a day.
AeroVelo 12y ago
Hi Theodores. We are in the process of finding and obtaining sponsors from other companies. As mentioned in the Kickstarter story, the total cost for this project is actually around $120K, and we are only using Kickstarter to cover a portion of that cost. Also, the amount of space available for advertisement is not as large as you think - adding stickers to the front portion of the fairing would increase the drag. (Notice the location of the stickers in the photo of Bluenose in the Kickstarter story)
- 12y ago