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False. The software running on your Android phone's application processor is not open source. A significant fraction of it is based on a closed source fork of

by gress 12y ago

False. The software running on your Android phone's application processor is not open source. A significant fraction of it is based on a closed source fork of AOSP. The rest (both the Google Mobile Services layer, and the manufacturers customizations) are all closed source and have never been open.

pwnna 12y ago
On top of that, there are baseband firmware which runs a realtime OS, which is completely closed source.
CountSessine 12y ago
Oh heavens. I did say 'most', didn't I?
- gress 12y ago
  Almost none of it is open source.
fpgeek 12y ago
> False. The software running on your Android phone's application processor is not open source. You're skipping over an important practical distinction: The precise software running on the application processor may not be open source, but it is closely related to usable software that is. Given that, it's possible to learn quite a bit by comparing the behavior of the closed-source fork and the open-source base. Is that as good as "open source all the way down"? Of course not. But it is a hell of a lot better than the "opaque binary blobs all the way down" offered by most of the alternatives.
- coldtea 12y ago
  >Is that as good as "open source all the way down"? Of course not. But it is a hell of a lot better than the "opaque binary blobs all the way down" offered by most of the alternatives. I fail to see how. It's not like a partial binary blob is better than a full on binary blob. The opaque part might do anything too...
  - fpgeek 12y ago
    Well, consider the example of Carrier IQ. The Carrier IQ software was installed on some Android phones, some iPhones and some Blackberry devices: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/print/9222319/AT_T_Sprint_confirm_use_of_Carrier_IQ_software_on_handsets http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/print/9222319/AT_T_Sp... Where was Carrier IQ found first? Why?
    - coldtea 12y ago
      >Where was Carrier IQ found first? Why? The link doesn't say. And if anything it was not because there was an open-source part of the phone OS. For one, on active, sold, phones, the device code is compiled anyway.
- gress 12y ago
  I'm not skipping anything, and at least you are agreeing that shipping Android phones are not using open source software. I do not dispute that having a related system that is open-source can aid in reverse engineering. However the source of commercial Android phones is not open source, and does not have the benefits that open source would imply.

by gress 12y ago

pwnna 12y ago

On top of that, there are baseband firmware which runs a realtime OS, which is completely closed source.

CountSessine 12y ago

Oh heavens. I did say 'most', didn't I?

gress 12y ago
Almost none of it is open source.

fpgeek 12y ago

> False. The software running on your Android phone's application processor is not open source. You're skipping over an important practical distinction: The precise software running on the application processor may not be open source, but it is closely related to usable software that is. Given that, it's possible to learn quite a bit by comparing the behavior of the closed-source fork and the open-source base. Is that as good as "open source all the way down"? Of course not. But it is a hell of a lot better than the "opaque binary blobs all the way down" offered by most of the alternatives.

coldtea 12y ago
>Is that as good as "open source all the way down"? Of course not. But it is a hell of a lot better than the "opaque binary blobs all the way down" offered by most of the alternatives. I fail to see how. It's not like a partial binary blob is better than a full on binary blob. The opaque part might do anything too...
- fpgeek 12y ago
  Well, consider the example of Carrier IQ. The Carrier IQ software was installed on some Android phones, some iPhones and some Blackberry devices: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/print/9222319/AT_T_Sprint_confirm_use_of_Carrier_IQ_software_on_handsets http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/print/9222319/AT_T_Sp... Where was Carrier IQ found first? Why?
  - coldtea 12y ago
    >Where was Carrier IQ found first? Why? The link doesn't say. And if anything it was not because there was an open-source part of the phone OS. For one, on active, sold, phones, the device code is compiled anyway.
gress 12y ago
I'm not skipping anything, and at least you are agreeing that shipping Android phones are not using open source software. I do not dispute that having a related system that is open-source can aid in reverse engineering. However the source of commercial Android phones is not open source, and does not have the benefits that open source would imply.