6 ms·

Wireless Electricity Demo

64 points by keltecp11 17y ago

dkokelley 17y ago
Does anybody know about the commercial availability of such a system?
- devicenull 17y ago
  Those were my thoughts exactly. I'd buy this now and I'm sure other people would as well. The quicker they get this to the market, the better.
  - keltecp11 17y ago
    Invest in recycling plants... there is going to be a lot of cable taken down and given a new life... this technology is amazing.
mcav 17y ago
How far could this technology reach physically? He addresses proximity on a desktop and such; is it feasible to get the magnetic coil to provide power within an entire house?
- dkokelley 17y ago
  I think the trick for now is to strategically position charging stations in common areas (desk, bedroom table, kitchen, etc.). Also, it looks like alignment is required, so it's not quite like the wireless router in your home reaching all of the rooms, more like your TV remote reaching the TV set.
  - Locke1689 17y ago
    Right. I'm nowhere near an expert in this but I would guess that the receiver has to be orthogonal to the planar field lines (parallel to the rectangular transmitter). Mostly that's a guess though because I'm not sure I understand how the magnetic resonance works, however he does seem careful to place the devices in that alignment.
    - blackguardx 17y ago
      Resonant energy transfer has been known for a very long time. Any electrical system that has inductance or capacitance (which means all electrical systems) will have a resonance point. This resonance point is the like the resonance point of a mass spring system or like resonance of a pendulum in a grandfather clock. If you drive a system at its resonance point, you will maximize the energy transfer into the system. That is all that is going on. If both the send and receive coils resonate at the same frequency, maximum power transfer can occur. There is no magic. This isn't a technology. Also, the coils do indeed have to be parallel to each other. Fields gradients are function as vectors in space and the receive coil must be positioned to "capture" as many field lines as possible emitted from the transmitter.
      - Locke1689 17y ago
        OK, thanks. That's what it sounded like but his description was low on the details so I figured I wouldn't make that stretch. Anyway, yes, my guess was mostly based on Maxwell and a little vector calc (physics minor, nothing more) but it seemed to make sense.
keltecp11 17y ago
I expect this within 10 years. This might be the 'next big thing'
modeless 17y ago
This technology is not interesting to me. The efficiency is too low, the coils are too big, the distances are too short, and too much alignment is required. The talk of replacing batteries is just hype. But the real reason I'm not excited is I don't believe this technology is going to improve much. People look at this and think that it's just like computers, so in 10 years these things will be 10 times smaller with 10 times the range. That's simply not true; there's no Moore's law for wireless power. We've known how to do this for over 100 years and the basic physics aren't changing. In 10 years the coils will still be that big, with the same range and the same alignment issues. Batteries, on the other hand, have plenty of room to improve. In 10 years batteries will definitely be storing more energy with less mass at lower cost with faster charging and longer lifetimes. That's a technology I can get excited about.
- Locke1689 17y ago
  I can't tell you how happy I am that this didn't descend into a Nikola Tesla circle-jerk as it always does on reddit. I've tried to make your points before but it seems that many people on reddit can't accept that while Tesla may have been misunderstood in his time, we have come very far in our understanding of physics and, despite claims to the contrary, have produced at least a couple very bright and creative electrical engineers in the past 100 years.
- JacobAldridge 17y ago
  there's no Moore's law for wireless power. This is so true of many industries, but we are easily blinded by so much rapid change that we assume it must be possible always and everywhere. I have no credibility to agree or disagree with the case in point, I just think it's an excellent point one to make.
- schammy 17y ago
  What, do you work for Duracell or something? :P
- dejb 17y ago
  I can see what you are saying in terms of the fundamental forces. However I wonder if it is possible to dynamically 'focus' the power. That would make things possible with microprocessors that would have been too tedious to perform manually. Even then it isn't that great if you need to install some massive device.
yread 17y ago
Hope is luggage doesn't get "lost" on the way back to US ;)
yread 17y ago
I think nobody can really say if it is safe or not. Animals are sensitive to magnetism - they can "see" where the north is. So it is not like magnetism doesn't have effect on us. And saying that it is just like Earth's magnetic field is downright wrong - that field doesn't have a MHz frequency and it is nowhere near that strong. Besides with sufficiently high powered magnetic field everything becomes magnetic http://www.hfml.ru.nl/froglev.html http://www.hfml.ru.nl/froglev.html I think I'll stick to the cables for some time
xcombinator 17y ago
Oh please, don't risk my health even more!!! Because it's not enough to have so much contamination, smoking, diesel particles, polymer additives, pesticides, nuclear waste,mercury fillings, let's add even more. Because you are too lazy to make a hole for your TV once in your lifetime, you add something that radiates 50% of their energy out there. YES, it's radiation, no matter what this pseudo scientist say(don't try to fool ignorant people), it's an electromagnetic wave, it is not static = radiation. This energy are photons of big wavelength. 1mW-3miliWatts laser light could be dangerous, let's put 50-400Watts(look at TVset specs)and radiate 100-800Watts out there(2·10^5 times more energy). What could go wrong?? Just do it, profit and if people get cancer, it's very difficult to prove. For the people that says that this can't resonate with cells and so on, look at the size of your brain, is that an electrical system? could it be affected in any way , look at your spinal cord, your testicles-ovaries(the size of the cell phone)... Don't get me wrong, People here are young and healthy, but I have seen people die very very bad from cancer - leukaemia after working near telecom towers(20 from 40 got cancer, the company make an statistic using the total company workers "diluting" it and saying that it's an statistic atypical, that it has nothing to do with their work). When my father worked in chemical industry as a chemist, when all the workers in one place lost their teeth they(the company) said that surely the workers got a venereal disease or something their fault. If someone dies or is affected from this thing, they are going to say: hey, it can't be our system. I don't care about people using this on their own taking responsibility, I care about people using it near me, or my family(neighbours), invading my airspace and polluting it.I care about systems capable of radiating 40KWatts for powering electric trucks (hey, it's safe!!) on public roads and I don't want it. Let me chose.
- CamperBob 17y ago
  YES, it's radiation, no matter what this pseudo scientist say(don't try to fool ignorant people), it's an electromagnetic wave, it is not static = radiation. When you can explain the terms in this simple equation: E = hv ... we'll all be interested in your opinion on this subject.
  - xcombinator 17y ago
    I don't understand the question. Do you mean that the energy that carries each photon is quantized (when the energy state of the excited atom is quantized in orbitals) and is inverse proportional to the wave length? ¿That is not radiation because it bounces a lot and don't penetrate? If you use a lot more photons, you will have a very different effect that a single one. Also, if you start making this devices, you will make it smaller and smaller and use less L on the inductances because it's more efficient, and that means use bigger frequencies, even microwaves( I heard they were using far radio in the first experiment), that are going to resonate with molecules bonds like ADN and stuff.

64 points by keltecp11 17y ago

dkokelley 17y ago

Does anybody know about the commercial availability of such a system?

devicenull 17y ago
Those were my thoughts exactly. I'd buy this now and I'm sure other people would as well. The quicker they get this to the market, the better.
- keltecp11 17y ago
  Invest in recycling plants... there is going to be a lot of cable taken down and given a new life... this technology is amazing.

mcav 17y ago

How far could this technology reach physically? He addresses proximity on a desktop and such; is it feasible to get the magnetic coil to provide power within an entire house?

dkokelley 17y ago
I think the trick for now is to strategically position charging stations in common areas (desk, bedroom table, kitchen, etc.). Also, it looks like alignment is required, so it's not quite like the wireless router in your home reaching all of the rooms, more like your TV remote reaching the TV set.
- Locke1689 17y ago
  Right. I'm nowhere near an expert in this but I would guess that the receiver has to be orthogonal to the planar field lines (parallel to the rectangular transmitter). Mostly that's a guess though because I'm not sure I understand how the magnetic resonance works, however he does seem careful to place the devices in that alignment.
  - blackguardx 17y ago
    Resonant energy transfer has been known for a very long time. Any electrical system that has inductance or capacitance (which means all electrical systems) will have a resonance point. This resonance point is the like the resonance point of a mass spring system or like resonance of a pendulum in a grandfather clock. If you drive a system at its resonance point, you will maximize the energy transfer into the system. That is all that is going on. If both the send and receive coils resonate at the same frequency, maximum power transfer can occur. There is no magic. This isn't a technology. Also, the coils do indeed have to be parallel to each other. Fields gradients are function as vectors in space and the receive coil must be positioned to "capture" as many field lines as possible emitted from the transmitter.
    - Locke1689 17y ago
      OK, thanks. That's what it sounded like but his description was low on the details so I figured I wouldn't make that stretch. Anyway, yes, my guess was mostly based on Maxwell and a little vector calc (physics minor, nothing more) but it seemed to make sense.

keltecp11 17y ago

I expect this within 10 years. This might be the 'next big thing'

modeless 17y ago

This technology is not interesting to me. The efficiency is too low, the coils are too big, the distances are too short, and too much alignment is required. The talk of replacing batteries is just hype. But the real reason I'm not excited is I don't believe this technology is going to improve much. People look at this and think that it's just like computers, so in 10 years these things will be 10 times smaller with 10 times the range. That's simply not true; there's no Moore's law for wireless power. We've known how to do this for over 100 years and the basic physics aren't changing. In 10 years the coils will still be that big, with the same range and the same alignment issues. Batteries, on the other hand, have plenty of room to improve. In 10 years batteries will definitely be storing more energy with less mass at lower cost with faster charging and longer lifetimes. That's a technology I can get excited about.

Locke1689 17y ago
I can't tell you how happy I am that this didn't descend into a Nikola Tesla circle-jerk as it always does on reddit. I've tried to make your points before but it seems that many people on reddit can't accept that while Tesla may have been misunderstood in his time, we have come very far in our understanding of physics and, despite claims to the contrary, have produced at least a couple very bright and creative electrical engineers in the past 100 years.
JacobAldridge 17y ago
there's no Moore's law for wireless power. This is so true of many industries, but we are easily blinded by so much rapid change that we assume it must be possible always and everywhere. I have no credibility to agree or disagree with the case in point, I just think it's an excellent point one to make.
schammy 17y ago
What, do you work for Duracell or something? :P
dejb 17y ago
I can see what you are saying in terms of the fundamental forces. However I wonder if it is possible to dynamically 'focus' the power. That would make things possible with microprocessors that would have been too tedious to perform manually. Even then it isn't that great if you need to install some massive device.

yread 17y ago

Hope is luggage doesn't get "lost" on the way back to US ;)

yread 17y ago

I think nobody can really say if it is safe or not. Animals are sensitive to magnetism - they can "see" where the north is. So it is not like magnetism doesn't have effect on us. And saying that it is just like Earth's magnetic field is downright wrong - that field doesn't have a MHz frequency and it is nowhere near that strong. Besides with sufficiently high powered magnetic field everything becomes magnetic http://www.hfml.ru.nl/froglev.html http://www.hfml.ru.nl/froglev.html I think I'll stick to the cables for some time

xcombinator 17y ago

Oh please, don't risk my health even more!!! Because it's not enough to have so much contamination, smoking, diesel particles, polymer additives, pesticides, nuclear waste,mercury fillings, let's add even more. Because you are too lazy to make a hole for your TV once in your lifetime, you add something that radiates 50% of their energy out there. YES, it's radiation, no matter what this pseudo scientist say(don't try to fool ignorant people), it's an electromagnetic wave, it is not static = radiation. This energy are photons of big wavelength. 1mW-3miliWatts laser light could be dangerous, let's put 50-400Watts(look at TVset specs)and radiate 100-800Watts out there(2·10^5 times more energy). What could go wrong?? Just do it, profit and if people get cancer, it's very difficult to prove. For the people that says that this can't resonate with cells and so on, look at the size of your brain, is that an electrical system? could it be affected in any way , look at your spinal cord, your testicles-ovaries(the size of the cell phone)... Don't get me wrong, People here are young and healthy, but I have seen people die very very bad from cancer - leukaemia after working near telecom towers(20 from 40 got cancer, the company make an statistic using the total company workers "diluting" it and saying that it's an statistic atypical, that it has nothing to do with their work). When my father worked in chemical industry as a chemist, when all the workers in one place lost their teeth they(the company) said that surely the workers got a venereal disease or something their fault. If someone dies or is affected from this thing, they are going to say: hey, it can't be our system. I don't care about people using this on their own taking responsibility, I care about people using it near me, or my family(neighbours), invading my airspace and polluting it.I care about systems capable of radiating 40KWatts for powering electric trucks (hey, it's safe!!) on public roads and I don't want it. Let me chose.

CamperBob 17y ago
YES, it's radiation, no matter what this pseudo scientist say(don't try to fool ignorant people), it's an electromagnetic wave, it is not static = radiation. When you can explain the terms in this simple equation: E = hv ... we'll all be interested in your opinion on this subject.
- xcombinator 17y ago
  I don't understand the question. Do you mean that the energy that carries each photon is quantized (when the energy state of the excited atom is quantized in orbitals) and is inverse proportional to the wave length? ¿That is not radiation because it bounces a lot and don't penetrate? If you use a lot more photons, you will have a very different effect that a single one. Also, if you start making this devices, you will make it smaller and smaller and use less L on the inductances because it's more efficient, and that means use bigger frequencies, even microwaves( I heard they were using far radio in the first experiment), that are going to resonate with molecules bonds like ADN and stuff.