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Take a step back. With 1GW of solar capacity production in NY by 2017, 50GWh of battery production in the southwest by 2020, Tesla's and SpaceX's manufacturing

Take a step back. With 1GW of solar capacity production in NY by 2017, 50GWh of battery production in the southwest by 2020, Tesla's and SpaceX's manufacturing facilities in CA, Elon's distributed clean generation, storage and transportation empire is concentrated in the USA. All of these companies are becoming increasingly in control of their supply and distribution channels. What's next, is Musk going to use SpaceX to mine asteroids for their metals to build increasingly inexpensive clean transportation, batteries and solar hardware back here on earth?

toomuchtodo 12y ago
What did Dune say? "He who controls the Spice controls the Universe?" Carbon-based energy sources will not last forever, and even if they outlast us, using them will be catastrophic to the environment. Elon is positioning himself as the provider of plentiful, clean energy generation and storage to the world (not to mention the provider of mobility and space transport). Is it too early to compare him to Rockefeller?
- hueving 12y ago
  >What did Dune say? "He who controls the Spice controls the Universe?" Carbon-based energy sources will not last forever, and even if they outlast us, using them will be catastrophic to the environment. That presupposes nothing can ever be done about the CO2 offset. >Is it too early to compare him to Rockefeller? That would be an insult to him. Standard Oil did some of the shadiest anti-competitive stuff that resulted in many of the laws to protect against monopolies today. I assume you've seen the famous octopus drawing[1]? That didn't become popular because people thought Standard Oil was giving a warm hug to society. The patent release alone shows his intentions are much difference from Rockefeller's. 1. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Standard_oil_octopus_loc_color.jpg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Standard_oil_octopus_...
  - toomuchtodo 12y ago
    The only way to offset CO2 in the atmosphere is to: a) Move carbon-based energy use to renewables b) If possible, remove CO2 in the atmosphere and storing it in a stable state underground. Elon is definitely working really fucking hard on the first item. The second item is what I would class as planet-level terraforming, and is going to take more than just Elon (without some sort of additional technological breakthrough). Also, I was not insulting him by calling him Rockefeller. I was simply saying he's become a titan of industry. You might have a better comparison than I off the cuff.
    - ph0rque 12y ago
      If possible, remove CO2 in the atmosphere and storing it in a stable state underground [...] what I would class as planet-level terraforming, and is going to take more than just Elon (without some sort of additional technological breakthrough). We already have nanomachines that work in harmony to do this: tree-and-mushroom networks (among other organisms) known as forests. I wish there was something like http://www.treesforthefuture.org/ http://www.treesforthefuture.org/ but commercial that I could invest in.
  - kbenson 12y ago
    > That would be an insult to him. Standard Oil did some of the shadiest anti-competitive stuff that resulted in many of the laws to protect against monopolies today. That was my first thought as well. I went to Wikipedia to make sure I wasn't missing something, and they paint him in a much more neutral light. I suspect the man, company and time period are complex enough that without a very comprehensive book (or a good professor), that simple statements about how good or bad he was will fail to capture the nuance of it all.
  - ameister14 12y ago
    I don't think you're giving Rockefeller enough credit. He learned a lesson from the Pennsylvania oil fields and their destructive competition, i.e. competition isn't always good. By monopolizing the oil industry, he actually lowered the cost of oil for consumers something like 10x, while at the same time standardizing its quality. Right now companies like Uber and Lyft are breaking the law providing their services. If the cabbies win their fight, should the founders of both companies be demonized? You could call what they do shady, and the same goes for Airbnb. Further, if the daughter of a medallion owner that was put out of business by Uber came to write the definitive biography of Garrett Camp, do you think it would be unbiased? That's what happened with Rockefeller.
    - salemh 12y ago
      A great read is Titan, which follows his rise to the "Titan" he was. He was a genius with engineering (re-designing physical oil barrels), operations, finance, scale, industrialization, almost everything. He is credited with creating modern medicinal research (though he detested it himself), and all around, was a highly unique character in history. Not withstanding him destroying his competition and consolidating the market, with the goal of lowering kerosene (I may have the wrong oil-type here) by 95% as a goal for "giving to the masses." Still many, many, many despicable acts, but a multi-dimensional man of course. http://www.amazon.com/Titan-The-Life-John-Rockefeller/dp/1400077303 http://www.amazon.com/Titan-The-Life-John-Rockefeller/dp/140... * While providing abundant new evidence of Rockefeller's misdeeds, Chernow discards the stereotype of the cold-blooded monster to sketch an unforgettably human portrait of a quirky, eccentric original. A devout Baptist and temperance advocate, Rockefeller gave money more generously--his chosen philanthropies included the Rockefeller Foundation, the University of Chicago, and what is today Rockefeller University--than anyone before him. Titan presents a finely nuanced portrait of a fascinating, complex man, synthesizing his public and private lives and disclosing numerous family scandals, tragedies, and misfortunes that have never before come to light.
  - smsm42 12y ago
    Interestingly, from the time this caricature was published (1904) to the time Standard was ordered to break up (1911) its market share declined from 91 to 64 percent, due mainly to raising competition. By the time, Rockefeller has long retired from Standard's management, but the court-ordered split, due to the increase in the stock value, made him the world's richest man. Looks like being an octopus is not that safe, but owning one is hugely lucrative.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- danmaz74 12y ago
  The very abundance and ubiquity of solar energy makes it practically impossible that any Rockefeller could come out of that industry.
- chris_mahan 12y ago
  But that was because the Guild navigators needed the spice to fold space, to enable space travel. Therefore, SpaceX. (I can imagine Elon in a spice tank, with orange vapours). (I include the British spelling since he's South African (he's also American and Canadian--do they say vapours in Canada?) Am I off-context enough yet?)

toomuchtodo 12y ago

What did Dune say? "He who controls the Spice controls the Universe?" Carbon-based energy sources will not last forever, and even if they outlast us, using them will be catastrophic to the environment. Elon is positioning himself as the provider of plentiful, clean energy generation and storage to the world (not to mention the provider of mobility and space transport). Is it too early to compare him to Rockefeller?

hueving 12y ago
>What did Dune say? "He who controls the Spice controls the Universe?" Carbon-based energy sources will not last forever, and even if they outlast us, using them will be catastrophic to the environment. That presupposes nothing can ever be done about the CO2 offset. >Is it too early to compare him to Rockefeller? That would be an insult to him. Standard Oil did some of the shadiest anti-competitive stuff that resulted in many of the laws to protect against monopolies today. I assume you've seen the famous octopus drawing[1]? That didn't become popular because people thought Standard Oil was giving a warm hug to society. The patent release alone shows his intentions are much difference from Rockefeller's. 1. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Standard_oil_octopus_loc_color.jpg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Standard_oil_octopus_...
- toomuchtodo 12y ago
  The only way to offset CO2 in the atmosphere is to: a) Move carbon-based energy use to renewables b) If possible, remove CO2 in the atmosphere and storing it in a stable state underground. Elon is definitely working really fucking hard on the first item. The second item is what I would class as planet-level terraforming, and is going to take more than just Elon (without some sort of additional technological breakthrough). Also, I was not insulting him by calling him Rockefeller. I was simply saying he's become a titan of industry. You might have a better comparison than I off the cuff.
  - ph0rque 12y ago
    If possible, remove CO2 in the atmosphere and storing it in a stable state underground [...] what I would class as planet-level terraforming, and is going to take more than just Elon (without some sort of additional technological breakthrough). We already have nanomachines that work in harmony to do this: tree-and-mushroom networks (among other organisms) known as forests. I wish there was something like http://www.treesforthefuture.org/ http://www.treesforthefuture.org/ but commercial that I could invest in.
- kbenson 12y ago
  > That would be an insult to him. Standard Oil did some of the shadiest anti-competitive stuff that resulted in many of the laws to protect against monopolies today. That was my first thought as well. I went to Wikipedia to make sure I wasn't missing something, and they paint him in a much more neutral light. I suspect the man, company and time period are complex enough that without a very comprehensive book (or a good professor), that simple statements about how good or bad he was will fail to capture the nuance of it all.
- ameister14 12y ago
  I don't think you're giving Rockefeller enough credit. He learned a lesson from the Pennsylvania oil fields and their destructive competition, i.e. competition isn't always good. By monopolizing the oil industry, he actually lowered the cost of oil for consumers something like 10x, while at the same time standardizing its quality. Right now companies like Uber and Lyft are breaking the law providing their services. If the cabbies win their fight, should the founders of both companies be demonized? You could call what they do shady, and the same goes for Airbnb. Further, if the daughter of a medallion owner that was put out of business by Uber came to write the definitive biography of Garrett Camp, do you think it would be unbiased? That's what happened with Rockefeller.
  - salemh 12y ago
    A great read is Titan, which follows his rise to the "Titan" he was. He was a genius with engineering (re-designing physical oil barrels), operations, finance, scale, industrialization, almost everything. He is credited with creating modern medicinal research (though he detested it himself), and all around, was a highly unique character in history. Not withstanding him destroying his competition and consolidating the market, with the goal of lowering kerosene (I may have the wrong oil-type here) by 95% as a goal for "giving to the masses." Still many, many, many despicable acts, but a multi-dimensional man of course. http://www.amazon.com/Titan-The-Life-John-Rockefeller/dp/1400077303 http://www.amazon.com/Titan-The-Life-John-Rockefeller/dp/140... * While providing abundant new evidence of Rockefeller's misdeeds, Chernow discards the stereotype of the cold-blooded monster to sketch an unforgettably human portrait of a quirky, eccentric original. A devout Baptist and temperance advocate, Rockefeller gave money more generously--his chosen philanthropies included the Rockefeller Foundation, the University of Chicago, and what is today Rockefeller University--than anyone before him. Titan presents a finely nuanced portrait of a fascinating, complex man, synthesizing his public and private lives and disclosing numerous family scandals, tragedies, and misfortunes that have never before come to light.
- smsm42 12y ago
  Interestingly, from the time this caricature was published (1904) to the time Standard was ordered to break up (1911) its market share declined from 91 to 64 percent, due mainly to raising competition. By the time, Rockefeller has long retired from Standard's management, but the court-ordered split, due to the increase in the stock value, made him the world's richest man. Looks like being an octopus is not that safe, but owning one is hugely lucrative.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
danmaz74 12y ago
The very abundance and ubiquity of solar energy makes it practically impossible that any Rockefeller could come out of that industry.
chris_mahan 12y ago
But that was because the Guild navigators needed the spice to fold space, to enable space travel. Therefore, SpaceX. (I can imagine Elon in a spice tank, with orange vapours). (I include the British spelling since he's South African (he's also American and Canadian--do they say vapours in Canada?) Am I off-context enough yet?)