5 ms·

I was under the impression that hunger is primarily a distribution issue, not an issue of production. Gates implicitly states that the vitamin A deficit is mai

by bildung 12y ago

I was under the impression that hunger is primarily a distribution issue, not an issue of production. Gates implicitly states that the vitamin A deficit is mainly a result of a one-sided diet. But isn't the one-sided diet itself a result of a lack of alternatives? So, if alternatives cannot currently be distributed to meet demand, how would a new breed of bananas solve that? Don't they also have to get distributed into those regions first?

swalsh 12y ago
There's a lot of people working on the "distribution" issue. There's no reason not to attack the problem from another angle. This is one of the things that makes Gate's foundation so great. He's bringing a pretty radical new perspective to charity. An approach of "Get the most good for his buck".
daviddumenil 12y ago
The article makes the point that the breeds need to exist first. NARO is looking into the second half of that equation.
tfinniga 12y ago
I think "distribution" in this context is just a nice way of saying that poor people can't afford better food from elsewhere, they have to rely on what is cheap and can be bought from the local market. If they're already buying bananas as a staple food, then I presume that the fix would be for the government to go to the local growers and either give the better banana plants for free, or at a discounted rate, or some other incentive. If that's what the growers grow, then that is what will eventually be available at the market. If they're growing their own food then that's a bit harder, but you could probably come up with some sort of incentive scheme to get people to switch. You could try charging the same amount as normal, but tell people that the new ones prevent blindness and anemia in children.
- bmj 12y ago
  I think "distribution" in this context is just a nice way of saying that poor people can't afford better food from elsewhere, they have to rely on what is cheap and can be bought from the local market. Depends on location, I think. In the United States, yeah, that might be the case, but in other countries (I'm thinking parts of Africa), it is a distribution issue, particularly when dealing with corrupt governments.
  - placeybordeaux 12y ago
    I am not sure if I agree, but in the case you are right improving the nutrition of all foods and making them disease resistant would certianly be a good thing.
  - jjoonathan 12y ago
    I'm sure it depends on the famine, but this very issue (is famine primarily due to local inequality or local scarcity) is currently the subject of a spat between two prominent academics, Amartya Sen and Thomas Picketty, which has produced an abundance of material on the subject. FWIW Picketty seems to be much better at managing the internet battlefront, so it might be better to start with Sen's book "Poverty and Famines: An Essay on Entitlement and Deprivation" ($10 on kindle) and then judge what you see on the internet after having read Sen's argument. Sen was originally motivated to study economics when, as a boy, he lived through one of India's famines while working at a grain/rice/? silo. He wanted to reconcile the fact that there was a large amount of excess grain left at the time the next crop was being harvested with the fact that he had seen starved corpses along the streets (and had heard that the famine was much worse elsewhere through the newspaper). He eventually came to the conclusion that the famine he had lived through, along with many others, was primarily economic (due to inequality combined with a few other triggers) rather than due to local food supply actually falling below what was needed to feed the population. I don't know as much about Picketty (I had Sen as a lecturer -- didn't care much for him in that capacity, but his writing was top quality). I do know that I haven't been impressed or convinced by Picketty's arguments, which read as if they were written by someone who had never read Sen's book (he keeps raising objections that Sen thoroughly addressed >30 years ago).
    - 12y ago
- bildung 12y ago
  > I think "distribution" in this context is just a nice way of saying that poor people can't afford better food from elsewhere, they have to rely on what is cheap and can be bought from the local market. That may very well be the case. > If they're already buying bananas as a staple food, then I presume that the fix would be for the government to go to the local growers and either give the better banana plants for free, or at a discounted rate, or some other incentive. If that's what the growers grow, then that is what will eventually be available at the market. I think that exactly is the distribution problem again: If the government has the means to do that, why is it not providing seeds/saplings etc. of vitamin A containing crops right now? Bananas are a really demanding crop, so the soil has to be of high quality. Most probably the article just left this information out for the sake of readability, but given the current information my fear is that these GMO bananas are a solution for a problem complex that has not been researched deeply enough to have a firm understanding of the causes. Like a startup running with the mantra 'build it and they will come' :)
  - judk 12y ago
    Maybe next time the Gates Foundation and its hundreds of resesrchers will consult you before wasting time on its billion-dollar "unresearched" programs.
  - Retric 12y ago
    Plants are vary region specific, and banana's are far easer to cultivate in some areas than just about anything else. It also far less costly to distribute seeds than what the seeds make. More importantly, once you swap DNA your done it's a one time cost with no further development needed. PS: Bananas will grow and fruit under poor soil conditions but will be less productive without deep, well-drained soil; forest loam, rocky sand, marl, red laterite, volcanic ash, sandy clay, or even heavy clay. The key element in soil type for successful banana plant growth is good drainage. Alluvial soils of river valleys are ideal for banana growing. Bananas prefer an acid soil.[3]
  - bryanlarsen 12y ago
    Bananas are tasty and currently part of the culture. Is it easier to add vitamin A to bananas or to convince people to eat a different food that's rich in vitamin A? It's easy to convince a starving person to eat anything, but AFAICT most of these people aren't starving, just malnourished.
rmc 12y ago
> I was under the impression that hunger is primarily a distribution issue, not an issue of production. What do you think the solution to distribution is? World-wide socialism, where all property is distributed based on need?
- mattzito 12y ago
  "Distribution", in this case, doesn't mean taking from the rich and giving to the poor, it means a combination of logistic and political issues. Often times, there is enough food already being donated to address the immediate food crisis, but it's being intercepted by warlords who sell it back on the open market and pocket the cash. Or just the mechanics of getting the food out into remote areas without it getting spoiled or rotten or whatever. So, distribution, in this case, is an Amazon-type distribution issue, not a political wealth-distribution issue.
  - afarrell 12y ago
    To split hairs, it is both a political wealth-distribution issue and an Amazon-type distribution issue. The warlord's ability to use their political power to hoard food wealth is certainly no less political than Stalin's ability to starve the Kulaks or absentee British landlords ability to import potatoes.
evincarofautumn 12y ago
> hunger is primarily a distribution issue, not an issue of production Sure, that’s like the fundamental principle of ecology. Earth’s population is increasing every year, and those people have to be made out of something.

by bildung 12y ago

swalsh 12y ago

There's a lot of people working on the "distribution" issue. There's no reason not to attack the problem from another angle. This is one of the things that makes Gate's foundation so great. He's bringing a pretty radical new perspective to charity. An approach of "Get the most good for his buck".

daviddumenil 12y ago

The article makes the point that the breeds need to exist first. NARO is looking into the second half of that equation.

tfinniga 12y ago

I think "distribution" in this context is just a nice way of saying that poor people can't afford better food from elsewhere, they have to rely on what is cheap and can be bought from the local market. If they're already buying bananas as a staple food, then I presume that the fix would be for the government to go to the local growers and either give the better banana plants for free, or at a discounted rate, or some other incentive. If that's what the growers grow, then that is what will eventually be available at the market. If they're growing their own food then that's a bit harder, but you could probably come up with some sort of incentive scheme to get people to switch. You could try charging the same amount as normal, but tell people that the new ones prevent blindness and anemia in children.

bmj 12y ago
I think "distribution" in this context is just a nice way of saying that poor people can't afford better food from elsewhere, they have to rely on what is cheap and can be bought from the local market. Depends on location, I think. In the United States, yeah, that might be the case, but in other countries (I'm thinking parts of Africa), it is a distribution issue, particularly when dealing with corrupt governments.
- placeybordeaux 12y ago
  I am not sure if I agree, but in the case you are right improving the nutrition of all foods and making them disease resistant would certianly be a good thing.
- jjoonathan 12y ago
  I'm sure it depends on the famine, but this very issue (is famine primarily due to local inequality or local scarcity) is currently the subject of a spat between two prominent academics, Amartya Sen and Thomas Picketty, which has produced an abundance of material on the subject. FWIW Picketty seems to be much better at managing the internet battlefront, so it might be better to start with Sen's book "Poverty and Famines: An Essay on Entitlement and Deprivation" ($10 on kindle) and then judge what you see on the internet after having read Sen's argument. Sen was originally motivated to study economics when, as a boy, he lived through one of India's famines while working at a grain/rice/? silo. He wanted to reconcile the fact that there was a large amount of excess grain left at the time the next crop was being harvested with the fact that he had seen starved corpses along the streets (and had heard that the famine was much worse elsewhere through the newspaper). He eventually came to the conclusion that the famine he had lived through, along with many others, was primarily economic (due to inequality combined with a few other triggers) rather than due to local food supply actually falling below what was needed to feed the population. I don't know as much about Picketty (I had Sen as a lecturer -- didn't care much for him in that capacity, but his writing was top quality). I do know that I haven't been impressed or convinced by Picketty's arguments, which read as if they were written by someone who had never read Sen's book (he keeps raising objections that Sen thoroughly addressed >30 years ago).
  - 12y ago
bildung 12y ago
> I think "distribution" in this context is just a nice way of saying that poor people can't afford better food from elsewhere, they have to rely on what is cheap and can be bought from the local market. That may very well be the case. > If they're already buying bananas as a staple food, then I presume that the fix would be for the government to go to the local growers and either give the better banana plants for free, or at a discounted rate, or some other incentive. If that's what the growers grow, then that is what will eventually be available at the market. I think that exactly is the distribution problem again: If the government has the means to do that, why is it not providing seeds/saplings etc. of vitamin A containing crops right now? Bananas are a really demanding crop, so the soil has to be of high quality. Most probably the article just left this information out for the sake of readability, but given the current information my fear is that these GMO bananas are a solution for a problem complex that has not been researched deeply enough to have a firm understanding of the causes. Like a startup running with the mantra 'build it and they will come' :)
- judk 12y ago
  Maybe next time the Gates Foundation and its hundreds of resesrchers will consult you before wasting time on its billion-dollar "unresearched" programs.
- Retric 12y ago
  Plants are vary region specific, and banana's are far easer to cultivate in some areas than just about anything else. It also far less costly to distribute seeds than what the seeds make. More importantly, once you swap DNA your done it's a one time cost with no further development needed. PS: Bananas will grow and fruit under poor soil conditions but will be less productive without deep, well-drained soil; forest loam, rocky sand, marl, red laterite, volcanic ash, sandy clay, or even heavy clay. The key element in soil type for successful banana plant growth is good drainage. Alluvial soils of river valleys are ideal for banana growing. Bananas prefer an acid soil.[3]
- bryanlarsen 12y ago
  Bananas are tasty and currently part of the culture. Is it easier to add vitamin A to bananas or to convince people to eat a different food that's rich in vitamin A? It's easy to convince a starving person to eat anything, but AFAICT most of these people aren't starving, just malnourished.

rmc 12y ago

> I was under the impression that hunger is primarily a distribution issue, not an issue of production. What do you think the solution to distribution is? World-wide socialism, where all property is distributed based on need?

mattzito 12y ago
"Distribution", in this case, doesn't mean taking from the rich and giving to the poor, it means a combination of logistic and political issues. Often times, there is enough food already being donated to address the immediate food crisis, but it's being intercepted by warlords who sell it back on the open market and pocket the cash. Or just the mechanics of getting the food out into remote areas without it getting spoiled or rotten or whatever. So, distribution, in this case, is an Amazon-type distribution issue, not a political wealth-distribution issue.
- afarrell 12y ago
  To split hairs, it is both a political wealth-distribution issue and an Amazon-type distribution issue. The warlord's ability to use their political power to hoard food wealth is certainly no less political than Stalin's ability to starve the Kulaks or absentee British landlords ability to import potatoes.

evincarofautumn 12y ago

> hunger is primarily a distribution issue, not an issue of production Sure, that’s like the fundamental principle of ecology. Earth’s population is increasing every year, and those people have to be made out of something.