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The bar is low enough that simply getting people to eat less processed foods is a win. We can debate how the liver breaks down sugar, or whether milk should be

by latch 12y ago

The bar is low enough that simply getting people to eat less processed foods is a win. We can debate how the liver breaks down sugar, or whether milk should be avoided, but that seems inconsequential when people are eating "hamburgers" where the buns are made from two deep fried chicken breasts. That said, virtually every major health agency recommends a diet where carbohydrates (from vegetables, fruits and grains) represent the majority of calories. For an individual, under the guidance of a doctor, it can make sense to alter this. For everyone else, just follow the guidelines.

phkahler 12y ago
http://www.choosemyplate.gov/downloads/mini_poster_English_final.pdf http://www.choosemyplate.gov/downloads/mini_poster_English_f... It's still the square meal from the 1970's with some small adjustments. Eat a small plate that looks like that. The meat portion should be 4 ounces or so.
bluedevil2k 12y ago
eating "hamburgers" where the buns are made from two deep fried chicken breasts You're referring to KFC's Double Down I assume, but if you look at it's nutrition facts (1) it's not as bad as you think, especially for a Paleo/Atkins based diet. And it's delicious. 1 - http://fast-food-nutrition.findthebest.com/l/1377/KFC-Original-Recipe-Double-Down http://fast-food-nutrition.findthebest.com/l/1377/KFC-Origin...
- erkkie 12y ago
  Unfortunately macro ratios only don't matter a whole lot in isolation, there are studies with any imaginable result out there for macro ratios so it's easy to pick-and-choose to represent any world view which makes the signal/noise ratio shit. The easiest take-away is to start with avoiding heavily processed food, regardless of the macro ratios.
- scottjad 12y ago
  It is very nutrient poor and it is very calorically dense, almost as dense as bread. | food (100g prepared) | cals | |----------------------+------| | KFC double down | 224 | | whole wheat bread | 259 | | brown rice | 110 | | corn | 86 | | carrots | 41 | | cantaloupe | 34 | But I guess if you love saturated fat and get your nutrition advice from bloggers and journalists it's awesome!
  - bluedevil2k 12y ago
    You're eating it for the protein (52g) and the taste. Not fair to compare a chicken breast to carrots in terms of nutrients. And the saturated fat isn't a big deal, that's the fuel your body uses when you're on the keto-diet, as I learned from my own switch to a keto-diet 4 years ago.
    - erkkie 12y ago
      How about the trans fats? edit: just realized there's supposedly no trans fats in KFC food. This is surprising and interesting. (apparently trans-fat free since 2007 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KFC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KFC)
      - a8da6b0c91d 12y ago
        N-6 fatty acid over consumption is still a huge problem, trans or not. Anything cooked in vegetable oils is bad for you. I believe the rise in vegetable oil (soy, corn, sunflower, canola, peanut) consumption is a key factor in the obesity epidemic. It has the effect of lowering metabolism and increasing inflammation.
        erkkie 12y ago
        Yes, there's lots of recent research showing the importance of managing n3/n6 ratios, typical western diets being up to 15:1 6/3 whereas ideal would be purpoted to be more closer to 1:1
erkkie 12y ago
Agree with this very much, the bar is indeed so low that the conversation should mostly be about eating real food and only then optimize further (and it's still very much inconclusive which macro nutrient ratios are "the best" and there may not be a single answer here). Ime it's been most problematic to get "real food" on the go, on travels, airports, etc. I feel like there's a disruption waiting to happen here in many western countries (for example in Thailand it's relatively easy to get fast-food made from fresh ingredients just-in-time).
atom-morgan 12y ago
> That said, virtually every major health agency recommends a diet where carbohydrates (from vegetables, fruits and grains) represent the majority of calories. Aren't these health agencies also associated with governments which frequently give preferential treatment and funding to certain groups within the food industry?
- latch 12y ago
  Was waiting for someone to say that ;) You either refuse to trust Health Canada, USDA, British Nutritional Foundation, NHMRC and so on (including all bureaucrats and scientists), or you study chemistry and biology, medicine and nutrition, or you accept the overwhelming consensus.
  - fthssht 12y ago
    Is overwhelming consensus a joke or are you genuinely that close minded arrogant and misinformed? ???
  - pyalot2 12y ago
    The overwhelming consensus led to a diabetes type 2 and obesity epidemic. Curious that when this consensus was absent, it wasn't nearly that much of a problem, but only started to become a huge giant problem once consensus was reached. Coincidence? Totally.
    - victorhooi 12y ago
      Well, no, bad eating habits and people with poor self-control led to a diabetes type 2 and obesity epidemic. (I'm not saying I have awesome self-control - it's a work in progress, but I'm not going to blame external factors when I'm the single largest determinator of what I put into my body). Sigh. I get sick of reading this, that people think it's some grand conspiracy, or that big corporations are poisoning you. Look, for most people (read - you, me and most people around us) - it really does boil down to self control. Eat less food, and exercise more. I'm always amazed by the portion sizes I get when I go out. And then when I don't shovel down food like my friends, they're like, "What's wrong? Are you sick? You should go see a doctor". I'm like, no...err, I'm just full? Yes, I have moments of weakness and I have my vices (liquorice...yummy), but if you just cut down on food in general, and the sugar and processed stuff, you will lose weight. I went from around 75kg to 68kg that way - sure, I suppose I could go lower, but I don't think I could maintain that level of self-control 24/7...haha. And another poster is right - a lot of the success of these fad diets is probably just due to people being conscious of what you eat - which they're normally not. The fact they're dieting probably means they realise exactly how much they're eating, and consciously or not, cut down on it.
fthssht 12y ago
The guidelines are worse than useless for example making no distinction on types of carbohydrates and essentially the food pyramid was the result of lobbying and not evidence. There's a Harvard food pyramid thats different from the one on cereal boxes.
a3n 12y ago
> The bar is low enough that simply getting people to eat less processed foods is a win. I suspect, with no research other than my own life (anecdote of one), that this is the fundamental benefit of any diet like paleo. Start with "food," avoid things in the ingredient list that are not "food" as much as possible. For example, when buying peanut butter (arguments for or against legumes aside), prefer the one where the entire ingredient list is "peanuts." Your ingredient list should be zero (produce and meat) or very short.
jack-r-abbit 12y ago
> eating "hamburgers" where the buns are made from two deep fried chicken breasts There is a burger joint in Santa Cruz, CA (aptly named "Burger.") that has a menu item called "The Snooki" which is a chili burger that uses two grilled cheese sandwiches as the bun. They have some other interesting items but that one just screams "heart attack."

by latch 12y ago

phkahler 12y ago

http://www.choosemyplate.gov/downloads/mini_poster_English_final.pdf http://www.choosemyplate.gov/downloads/mini_poster_English_f... It's still the square meal from the 1970's with some small adjustments. Eat a small plate that looks like that. The meat portion should be 4 ounces or so.

bluedevil2k 12y ago

eating "hamburgers" where the buns are made from two deep fried chicken breasts You're referring to KFC's Double Down I assume, but if you look at it's nutrition facts (1) it's not as bad as you think, especially for a Paleo/Atkins based diet. And it's delicious. 1 - http://fast-food-nutrition.findthebest.com/l/1377/KFC-Original-Recipe-Double-Down http://fast-food-nutrition.findthebest.com/l/1377/KFC-Origin...

erkkie 12y ago
Unfortunately macro ratios only don't matter a whole lot in isolation, there are studies with any imaginable result out there for macro ratios so it's easy to pick-and-choose to represent any world view which makes the signal/noise ratio shit. The easiest take-away is to start with avoiding heavily processed food, regardless of the macro ratios.
scottjad 12y ago
It is very nutrient poor and it is very calorically dense, almost as dense as bread. | food (100g prepared) | cals | |----------------------+------| | KFC double down | 224 | | whole wheat bread | 259 | | brown rice | 110 | | corn | 86 | | carrots | 41 | | cantaloupe | 34 | But I guess if you love saturated fat and get your nutrition advice from bloggers and journalists it's awesome!
- bluedevil2k 12y ago
  You're eating it for the protein (52g) and the taste. Not fair to compare a chicken breast to carrots in terms of nutrients. And the saturated fat isn't a big deal, that's the fuel your body uses when you're on the keto-diet, as I learned from my own switch to a keto-diet 4 years ago.
  - erkkie 12y ago
    How about the trans fats? edit: just realized there's supposedly no trans fats in KFC food. This is surprising and interesting. (apparently trans-fat free since 2007 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KFC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KFC)
    - a8da6b0c91d 12y ago
      N-6 fatty acid over consumption is still a huge problem, trans or not. Anything cooked in vegetable oils is bad for you. I believe the rise in vegetable oil (soy, corn, sunflower, canola, peanut) consumption is a key factor in the obesity epidemic. It has the effect of lowering metabolism and increasing inflammation.
      - erkkie 12y ago
        Yes, there's lots of recent research showing the importance of managing n3/n6 ratios, typical western diets being up to 15:1 6/3 whereas ideal would be purpoted to be more closer to 1:1

erkkie 12y ago

Agree with this very much, the bar is indeed so low that the conversation should mostly be about eating real food and only then optimize further (and it's still very much inconclusive which macro nutrient ratios are "the best" and there may not be a single answer here). Ime it's been most problematic to get "real food" on the go, on travels, airports, etc. I feel like there's a disruption waiting to happen here in many western countries (for example in Thailand it's relatively easy to get fast-food made from fresh ingredients just-in-time).

atom-morgan 12y ago

> That said, virtually every major health agency recommends a diet where carbohydrates (from vegetables, fruits and grains) represent the majority of calories. Aren't these health agencies also associated with governments which frequently give preferential treatment and funding to certain groups within the food industry?

latch 12y ago
Was waiting for someone to say that ;) You either refuse to trust Health Canada, USDA, British Nutritional Foundation, NHMRC and so on (including all bureaucrats and scientists), or you study chemistry and biology, medicine and nutrition, or you accept the overwhelming consensus.
- fthssht 12y ago
  Is overwhelming consensus a joke or are you genuinely that close minded arrogant and misinformed? ???
- pyalot2 12y ago
  The overwhelming consensus led to a diabetes type 2 and obesity epidemic. Curious that when this consensus was absent, it wasn't nearly that much of a problem, but only started to become a huge giant problem once consensus was reached. Coincidence? Totally.
  - victorhooi 12y ago
    Well, no, bad eating habits and people with poor self-control led to a diabetes type 2 and obesity epidemic. (I'm not saying I have awesome self-control - it's a work in progress, but I'm not going to blame external factors when I'm the single largest determinator of what I put into my body). Sigh. I get sick of reading this, that people think it's some grand conspiracy, or that big corporations are poisoning you. Look, for most people (read - you, me and most people around us) - it really does boil down to self control. Eat less food, and exercise more. I'm always amazed by the portion sizes I get when I go out. And then when I don't shovel down food like my friends, they're like, "What's wrong? Are you sick? You should go see a doctor". I'm like, no...err, I'm just full? Yes, I have moments of weakness and I have my vices (liquorice...yummy), but if you just cut down on food in general, and the sugar and processed stuff, you will lose weight. I went from around 75kg to 68kg that way - sure, I suppose I could go lower, but I don't think I could maintain that level of self-control 24/7...haha. And another poster is right - a lot of the success of these fad diets is probably just due to people being conscious of what you eat - which they're normally not. The fact they're dieting probably means they realise exactly how much they're eating, and consciously or not, cut down on it.

fthssht 12y ago

The guidelines are worse than useless for example making no distinction on types of carbohydrates and essentially the food pyramid was the result of lobbying and not evidence. There's a Harvard food pyramid thats different from the one on cereal boxes.

a3n 12y ago

> The bar is low enough that simply getting people to eat less processed foods is a win. I suspect, with no research other than my own life (anecdote of one), that this is the fundamental benefit of any diet like paleo. Start with "food," avoid things in the ingredient list that are not "food" as much as possible. For example, when buying peanut butter (arguments for or against legumes aside), prefer the one where the entire ingredient list is "peanuts." Your ingredient list should be zero (produce and meat) or very short.

jack-r-abbit 12y ago

> eating "hamburgers" where the buns are made from two deep fried chicken breasts There is a burger joint in Santa Cruz, CA (aptly named "Burger.") that has a menu item called "The Snooki" which is a chili burger that uses two grilled cheese sandwiches as the bun. They have some other interesting items but that one just screams "heart attack."