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All of those examples work for me with Chrome 35. One thing I would love on HN is the reluctance to say something is "lame" because one example doesn't work fo

All of those examples work for me with Chrome 35. One thing I would love on HN is the reluctance to say something is "lame" because one example doesn't work for one person on one browser. Instead of being dismissive, why not be constructive? Or if you can't even do that, just don't post?

peterhunt 12y ago
If you look at my posting history you'll see that I tend to agree with your sentiment. Too much negativity on HN and I combat it where I can. But "lightweight" JS fetishism at the expense of correctness (and the arrogance that comes with it!) is an epidemic in the frontend web business today. I think it's important to highlight this when it happens so we can stop making crappy web apps and start to actually deliver reasonable experiences when compared to native. Also here is a video of the bug: http://www.petehunt.net/hamlet.mov http://www.petehunt.net/hamlet.mov
- Yahivin 12y ago
  Hi Pete, I can't get the video to work on my machine. When opening it with the default video player I get: An error occurred This file contains no playable streams. System info: ♥ uname -a Linux yolobookjr 3.8.0-35-generic #50-Ubuntu SMP Tue Dec 3 01:24:59 UTC 2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux Looks like a lot of software still has room to improve. :)
- mdiebolt 12y ago
  Thanks for your video reproducing the bug. We'll get on it. We don't expect to have something as polished as React yet. Early feedback is all we can hope for so we can iterate on what we believe is an innovative approach to a problem that many devs have.
  - peterhunt 12y ago
    To be clear I'm not at all against what you guys are doing. It's more about the messaging than anything else -- there are plenty of open-source projects that this could be said about, but the messaging is a lot less aggro than what I saw on Hamlet.
    - Yahivin 12y ago
      I do see what you mean about the messaging and I understand how you could feel that way. I apologize if it's a little aggressive, it's not our intent to belittle the work of others. We'll try to find the most constructive ways to express the tradeoffs between tools as we continue to refine our project and message. Thanks again for the feedback, sorry if I come off as an ass sometimes.
- jonahx 12y ago
  I see the bug too on Chrome 35 on a Mac. That said, and with lots of respect for your work on React Pete, and also acknowledging that React is probably the simplest of the big frameworks, the love of minimalism and simplicity comes from a very real need and attempts to fulfill that need shouldn't be dismissed as toy projects. From what I can tell, Mithril, for example, is anything but that. I think people really really like being able to jump into something that can be useful and played with based on a few examples, and to model things with POJOs. I agree correctness shouldn't be sacrificed, but it doesn't have to be.
  - peterhunt 12y ago
    Totally agree. If someone comes up with a simpler way to do it and proves it out on a few projects of real complexity, then I think it's great. My complaint is you see a lot of upstart projects pulling mindshare when the reason they're simple is either a matter of personal preference or a lack of essential complexity. Hamlet was an easy target because cursor position management is a great example of essential complexity and they made pretty aggro claims on their site about how over-engineered everything else is.

peterhunt 12y ago

If you look at my posting history you'll see that I tend to agree with your sentiment. Too much negativity on HN and I combat it where I can. But "lightweight" JS fetishism at the expense of correctness (and the arrogance that comes with it!) is an epidemic in the frontend web business today. I think it's important to highlight this when it happens so we can stop making crappy web apps and start to actually deliver reasonable experiences when compared to native. Also here is a video of the bug: http://www.petehunt.net/hamlet.mov http://www.petehunt.net/hamlet.mov

Yahivin 12y ago
Hi Pete, I can't get the video to work on my machine. When opening it with the default video player I get: An error occurred This file contains no playable streams. System info: ♥ uname -a Linux yolobookjr 3.8.0-35-generic #50-Ubuntu SMP Tue Dec 3 01:24:59 UTC 2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux Looks like a lot of software still has room to improve. :)
mdiebolt 12y ago
Thanks for your video reproducing the bug. We'll get on it. We don't expect to have something as polished as React yet. Early feedback is all we can hope for so we can iterate on what we believe is an innovative approach to a problem that many devs have.
- peterhunt 12y ago
  To be clear I'm not at all against what you guys are doing. It's more about the messaging than anything else -- there are plenty of open-source projects that this could be said about, but the messaging is a lot less aggro than what I saw on Hamlet.
  - Yahivin 12y ago
    I do see what you mean about the messaging and I understand how you could feel that way. I apologize if it's a little aggressive, it's not our intent to belittle the work of others. We'll try to find the most constructive ways to express the tradeoffs between tools as we continue to refine our project and message. Thanks again for the feedback, sorry if I come off as an ass sometimes.
jonahx 12y ago
I see the bug too on Chrome 35 on a Mac. That said, and with lots of respect for your work on React Pete, and also acknowledging that React is probably the simplest of the big frameworks, the love of minimalism and simplicity comes from a very real need and attempts to fulfill that need shouldn't be dismissed as toy projects. From what I can tell, Mithril, for example, is anything but that. I think people really really like being able to jump into something that can be useful and played with based on a few examples, and to model things with POJOs. I agree correctness shouldn't be sacrificed, but it doesn't have to be.
- peterhunt 12y ago
  Totally agree. If someone comes up with a simpler way to do it and proves it out on a few projects of real complexity, then I think it's great. My complaint is you see a lot of upstart projects pulling mindshare when the reason they're simple is either a matter of personal preference or a lack of essential complexity. Hamlet was an easy target because cursor position management is a great example of essential complexity and they made pretty aggro claims on their site about how over-engineered everything else is.