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What do you mean "the success of PUA" ? Do you mean success in attracting women? We can't take pick up artists at face value when they say how many women they'

What do you mean "the success of PUA" ? Do you mean success in attracting women? We can't take pick up artists at face value when they say how many women they've seduced. How do we know they don't exaggerate? Even if they don't, how can we rule out that their success rates are below average, and they succeed with brute force (asking out lots and lots of women)? Or, by success, are you referring to the popularity of pick up artistry? Again, we don't have numbers. I suspect the number of pick up artists are very low. But lets assume it is popular, or at least desired. If I was to guess as to why, it's because people want the easy way out. Actually giving a shit about people, taking time to learn their unique differences, caring for them and doing right by them, that takes so much work. It would be so much easier if there were just 3 steps to making anyone your friend. But there's not. You want something that doesn't exist. But that doesn't stop scam artists from exploiting your hope that it does.

JohnBooty 12y ago
Wow, guy. Lots of really negative assumptions there. As I posted elsewhere on this thread, there is no substitute for genuinely caring for others. Personally, I'm known for being quite outgoing and friendly. Probably because I genuinely care about people. I don't need these kinds of guides or an "easy way out." But clearly, there are many people in the world who need help in this area. And for them, I wish there was something more positive than the PUA thing.
- normloman 12y ago
  Didn't mean you specifically. Meant "you" in the general sense. Should have said "We want something that doesn't exist." As in we all do. Sorry for getting personal. Anyhow the sort of person who needs pick up artist techniques to make friends needs a lot more help than a book can provide.
  - JohnBooty 12y ago
    I think we both agree that genuine empathy and sympathy for others (and, crucially, expressing those things) are at the core of a healthy human relationship. For some of us, that's very intuitive, so the idea of learning it from a book can seem silly. For others, maybe not? We can say that these people need "more help than a book can provide" but... breaking things down into manageable steps for people is also a pretty big part of professional therapy as well. I was a nice but very socially awkward kid (way weirder than the average kid) and I eventually learned how to sociable as I went through my teenage years and early 20s. [1] So I always think other people can learn too. At least to some extent. ------ [1] Luckily the PUA thing didn't even exist back then, so I didn't go that route!)
digitalzombie 12y ago
> Actually giving a shit about people, taking time to learn their unique differences, caring for them and doing right by them, that takes so much work. It's about 50/50 in my anecdotal experience that half of them doesn't give a shit or is basically assholes. > It would be so much easier if there were just 3 steps to making anyone your friend. That's actually not true. It's actually a skill and some of these guys, including me, have spent years going out twice a week, 5 days a week, to acquire this skill. It might seem easy to read those stuff but I think it's hard work to actually practice it. > But that doesn't stop scam artists from exploiting your hope that it does. I haven't spend any money on it. Mostly lurking through forums. But, I know a few coaches and they do make money off of people. I personally don't believe they can really make a lasting impact with just a week of booth camp or two days. It may help if you have some basis or moderate understanding of communication or social skill. It's more of a skill that take years. If you do want to see some positive side of PUA I believe 21 convention videoes on youtube is good. It focus on all aspect.
- JohnBooty 12y ago
  > That's actually not true. It's actually a skill and > some of these guys, including me, have spent years > going out twice a week, 5 days a week, to acquire > this skill. What we're seeing in this thread (and everywhere, really) is that this skill is so intuitive to many people that they don't even recognize that it's a skill others have to work at. I'm kind of in the middle. I was an awkward kid but I worked hard at figuring out how to socialize over the years and now it actually comes pretty naturally to me. (Not that I'm a master charmer today or anything!) But I respect that this skill is something that a lot of people struggle at. And I think that getting people started on the right path might be simpler than other people think - some people benefit from having allegedly "intuitive" concepts spelled out to them, such as "a good conversationalist will ask questions about the other person."

JohnBooty 12y ago

Wow, guy. Lots of really negative assumptions there. As I posted elsewhere on this thread, there is no substitute for genuinely caring for others. Personally, I'm known for being quite outgoing and friendly. Probably because I genuinely care about people. I don't need these kinds of guides or an "easy way out." But clearly, there are many people in the world who need help in this area. And for them, I wish there was something more positive than the PUA thing.

normloman 12y ago
Didn't mean you specifically. Meant "you" in the general sense. Should have said "We want something that doesn't exist." As in we all do. Sorry for getting personal. Anyhow the sort of person who needs pick up artist techniques to make friends needs a lot more help than a book can provide.
- JohnBooty 12y ago
  I think we both agree that genuine empathy and sympathy for others (and, crucially, expressing those things) are at the core of a healthy human relationship. For some of us, that's very intuitive, so the idea of learning it from a book can seem silly. For others, maybe not? We can say that these people need "more help than a book can provide" but... breaking things down into manageable steps for people is also a pretty big part of professional therapy as well. I was a nice but very socially awkward kid (way weirder than the average kid) and I eventually learned how to sociable as I went through my teenage years and early 20s. [1] So I always think other people can learn too. At least to some extent. ------ [1] Luckily the PUA thing didn't even exist back then, so I didn't go that route!)

digitalzombie 12y ago

> Actually giving a shit about people, taking time to learn their unique differences, caring for them and doing right by them, that takes so much work. It's about 50/50 in my anecdotal experience that half of them doesn't give a shit or is basically assholes. > It would be so much easier if there were just 3 steps to making anyone your friend. That's actually not true. It's actually a skill and some of these guys, including me, have spent years going out twice a week, 5 days a week, to acquire this skill. It might seem easy to read those stuff but I think it's hard work to actually practice it. > But that doesn't stop scam artists from exploiting your hope that it does. I haven't spend any money on it. Mostly lurking through forums. But, I know a few coaches and they do make money off of people. I personally don't believe they can really make a lasting impact with just a week of booth camp or two days. It may help if you have some basis or moderate understanding of communication or social skill. It's more of a skill that take years. If you do want to see some positive side of PUA I believe 21 convention videoes on youtube is good. It focus on all aspect.

JohnBooty 12y ago
> That's actually not true. It's actually a skill and > some of these guys, including me, have spent years > going out twice a week, 5 days a week, to acquire > this skill. What we're seeing in this thread (and everywhere, really) is that this skill is so intuitive to many people that they don't even recognize that it's a skill others have to work at. I'm kind of in the middle. I was an awkward kid but I worked hard at figuring out how to socialize over the years and now it actually comes pretty naturally to me. (Not that I'm a master charmer today or anything!) But I respect that this skill is something that a lot of people struggle at. And I think that getting people started on the right path might be simpler than other people think - some people benefit from having allegedly "intuitive" concepts spelled out to them, such as "a good conversationalist will ask questions about the other person."