11 ms·
So Starbucks is basically doing the government's job.
by dan_bk 12y ago
So Starbucks is basically doing the government's job.
- lotu 12y agoIf Starbucks can do a better job educating students I'm not going to complain.
- grecy 12y agoDon't complain about starbucks, but you should absolutely be complaining about the government.
- arturh 12y agoGovernments don't seem to be able to make Starbucks pay tax.
- _pmf_ 12y agoMerely paying taxes is obviously less publishable than holding back taxes and then sprinkling trace amounts on some good cause.
- ctdonath 12y agoCompletely ignoring everything else Starbucks does to the benefit of the country (employment, raised standards, contribution to GDP, etc), now including free education to some 150,000 employees.
- zghst 12y agoI've calculated free education, it would basically collapse our government's finances. A College education is nice, but is not the sole step to ending to our economic and societal problems.
- claudius 12y agoIf I understood the article correctly, a BSc costs $60k in tuition for an online course. I believe this to not cover required textbooks etc., which are likely more difficult to find in a library if you’re on the other side of the country. In comparison, my BSc at TU Berlin cost me 6 * 240 €, which includes free access to Berlin’s public transport system. And while the financial state of Berlin is certainly far from perfect, I wouldn’t call it ‘collapsed’ (oh, and I get the impression that a college education in the US is more like a high school degree in Germany and not directly comparable to a proper university degree…any comments/similar observations?)
- tptacek 12y agoHow about, instead of begging for what will be probably the most pointless debate on HN this whole week with innuendo, you put in a show of good faith with that question and find a credible source that suggests that a German high school diploma is equivalent to an American college degree? Perhaps after you do that, it'll be a good idea for anyone to dignify that question.
- claudius 12y agoSure. Look at https://webapp4.asu.edu/programs/t5/roadmaps/ASU00/LAPHYBA/null/ALL/2014 https://webapp4.asu.edu/programs/t5/roadmaps/ASU00/LAPHYBA/n... for the physics degree at Arizona state. It doesn’t seem to have a bachelor thesis or comparable work, it has about 50% stuff which has nothing whatsoever to do with physics (e.g. “Humanities, Fine Arts and Design (HU) AND Historical Awareness (H)”) and its physics courses seem end with things like “PHY 302: Mathematical Methods in Physics II“, which contains “complex variables”, “PHY 311: Classical Particles, Fields, and Matter II“, with “Faraday’s Law” and just a single QM course “PHY 314: Quantum Physics I” which only mentions wave mechanics, but makes no mention of perturbation theory, matrix mechanics or the standard Hilbert space approach with Dirac notation. Especially the 50%-or-so of liberal arts, historical awareness etc. seem to be more appropriately placed in a high school degree than in a college degree, and things like complex variables shouldn’t require introduction in term five either.
- 12y ago
- gambiting 12y agoMy country - Poland - has completely free education, on every level - primary, middle,high school and every university are free. There are private ones which are paid but they are not very good and a degree from any of them is not worth much. And yet despite free education(and free healthcare for everyone) we managed to be the ONLY country in the entire European Union to not enter into recession - while every other country was going into negative numbers,we managed to maintain positive growth. So, if free education in the US would collapse your finances, then there is something seriously wrong with either the cost of the education(which is seriously inflated and disproportionate for what it's offering) or your government has wrong spending priorities.
- lifeisstillgood 12y agoI am considering creating puppet accounts just to upvote you more ;-)
- xerophtye 12y agoDoes the free education thing apply to international students? I know some EU countries only have that for locals and some (like norway) extend that privilege for international students. So where does Poland classify? Not criticizing, just curious.
- smm2000 12y agoTo be fair, Poland is at a pretty low base - it's at less than half of Germany GDP per person. I would not be surprised if some companies moved work to Poland to save on labour instead of moving to China/Asia as most cost-cutting companies did in US.
- dan_bk 12y ago> it would basically collapse our government's finances My guess is, the comparatively extremely high military budget [0] is the actual culprit. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_...
- NAFV_P 12y ago> I've calculated free education, it would basically collapse our government's finances. Free, useless education is costly, but in the long run, useful education works to the benefit of governments.
- justizin 12y agoPutting aside entirely the fact that the cost of education in the US is rising at an unhealthy rate, and has been for some time, largely due to profit-driven education, about half of our national budget goes to wars. THAT is what is collapsing our government's finances. Sending young people off to die, largely protecting corporate interests, and when they return not only can they not afford education, but they have a 1+ year waiting list for basic health care.
- peter-row 12y agoNo, the ASU (which is part of the government) is doing its job. Starbucks is forking over a few hundred dollars per worker as a perk.
- Shivetya 12y agoNo, they are trying to keep their good employees and gain some kudos from the public and select special interest groups. While it is good for their employees having companies pay college costs long term could turn out bad as using our health care system as an example, when the costs of something are not fully realized by the users the costs tend to increase disproportionally to inflation What the government can do and may need to do is establish an online standardized two year degree. Something that can be done online except perhaps for final testing which would then be held at a local facility. Basically expend the funds to develop the courses, online environment, and testing, and give it away to all US citizens for free. It certainly would not cost anywhere near what was paid just for all incarnations of the ACA websites. After the two year students could transition to paid college services, it might help weed out all those who truly don't need a specialized degree or four years of education TL;DR Employer paid education could turn out like employer paid health care Government should create for free a standardized two year degree program for online education
- blablabla123 12y agoThat's probably a philosophical question. You are probably right in the case of young folks. But think of people who are older and just would like to study something [else].
- wyclif 12y agoIt is not "the government's job" to educate people. Full stop.
- jawns 12y agoI am not much of a cheerleader for public education in its current form in the U.S., but surely a case can be made that it is society's job to educate people -- because it is in society's best interest that people be educated. And if society determines that one effective way to ensure that all people, even those of limited means, have an opportunity to receive an education, is to devote public dollars toward the effort, I see no reason why we can't say that, by proxy, it is the government's job to educate people. (Personally, though, I would like to see the government's role as being primarily the benefactor and not the administrator or provider of education.) As an aside, adding the words "full stop" to a statement may communicate extra intensity, but it doesn't excuse you from having to provide evidence to back up what you say.
- mindcrime 12y ago"society" != "the government". Government is unique in that it reserves for itself the "right" to use force to compel people to cooperate with it's directives. "Society" can accomplish many things without needing force, and one of the mechanisms "society" uses to accomplish things is voluntary exchange in a free market environment. I would agree that it is not "the government"'s job to provide education, since there is no valid reason to use force / aggression as part of educating people.
- jawns 12y ago>> One of the mechanisms "society" uses to accomplish things is voluntary exchange in a free market environment. You're right, Phil. That's ONE of the mechanisms society uses to accomplish things. That's not the only mechanism, and it's certainly not the appropriate mechanism for many things. I'll give you a concrete example. In my state, the Department of Transportation only plows snow from arterial roads, not from neighborhood roads. In order to get snow plowed on a neighborhood street, residents have to organize a civic association that collects dues, and those dues are used to pay for plowing; the state then reimburses the civic association for a portion of its expenses. But because membership in the civic associations is entirely voluntary, we end up with a 30 percent participation rate. My share of the dues, in effect, pays for not only myself but two of my neighbors who aren't willing to pay their fare share. That is ridiculous. It is a perfect example of a case in which it is simpler and fairer for a couple of bucks to be added to each household's property taxes and have the plowing be publicly funded (although it could still be privately plowed). Furthermore, the idea that the only role of the government is in situations where force is necessary is pretty darn limited. You might have a case if you're talking about national government, but I imagine that the bulk of the tasks your municipal government takes care of, outside of police work proper, don't require acts of aggression.