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Focus on the part about having a more educated population. Educated persons tend to vote for candidates aligned with their best interests, spend money more wis

Focus on the part about having a more educated population. Educated persons tend to vote for candidates aligned with their best interests, spend money more wisely, and commit less crime. More educated peers and neighbors will make your life better.

ryanfreeborn 12y ago
Yup. Couldn't agree more with this response. There is this growing contrarian sentiment—particularly in the HN and Reddit communities—that "college isn't for everyone". The college industrial complex aside, I cannot see how further education—particularly through programs like this one—could ever be a bad thing. After all, education is the silver bullet.
- Chronic28 12y ago
  People are not actually learning. They are simply "along for the ride" while memorizing for tests so they can land a job and forget most of the things they've learned. Perhaps we should improve our secondary education as we are lacking on that front in America instead of encouraging everyone to take 4 more years out of their working lives.
  - jimmaswell 12y ago
    I've witnessed this, myself. It shows itself as a lot of questions about what's going to be on a test instead of trying to understand the material.
- gaius 12y ago
  There are many important, useful, societally and culturally valuable things, that are not best suited to being studied as an academic degree.
- aestra 12y ago
  >I cannot see how further education—particularly through programs like this one—could ever be a bad thing Opportunity costs for one.
  - genericuser 12y ago
    Opportunity costs do not make things bad. They can make things worse than an alternative or better than an alternative. If the person choosing what to do with their life is able to see an existing opportunity which is better than education then they should choose it, why would they not? But if they are unable to see such opportunities then choosing to become more educated is not a bad choice provided as is the case in this situation that it does not present an additional financial burden. One could even argue that the set of options one should consider when weighing opportunity cost should only be composed of the options to which the decision maker is aware (can reasonably be expected to become aware) of.
    - aestra 12y ago
      >But if they are unable to see such opportunities then choosing to become more educated is not a bad choice provided as is the case in this situation that it does not present an additional financial burden. You aren't taking into consideration opportunity costs. I spend 4 years at school to get a Spanish degree that doesn't cost anything for me to go. Now I have a Spanish degree and I have exactly the same job as I could have gotten before the degree. I've wasted 4 years where I could have been making a salary, pursuing hobbies, raising children, etc. We shouldn't be like: 1) Take a class/get a degree in anything with no plan whatsoever. 2) ??? 3) PROFIT!
      - genericuser 12y ago
        No, I am. But you don't seem to understand the difference between hindsight and opportunity cost. (Either that or are trolling me, in which case success for you I guess) I specifically said: "is able to see an existing opportunity which is better than education then they should choose it, why would they not?" So you chose Education presumably because you thought getting a Spanish degree was a better option than those others, therefore you viewed the other options as having the opportunity cost. In which case you may have been bad at estimating benefit, or perhaps the choices you were trying to value were simply too unpredictable, but you followed the idea of opportunity cost correctly. Or even worse you knew those options were better and you chose an option you recognized as worse, in which case WHY? Opportunity cost is not a synonym for hindsight it is about weighing two decisions with information you have available (or can have) at the time. Edit: Also now you know Spanish which should bring you as a person some level of enjoyment, and is therefore a benefit. If not I wonder why you would of kept studying it.
zghst 12y ago
I disagree especially because the quality of everyone's education is not the same. While education may seem like the great equalizer, people have to enter school willing to learn, explore and engage with their peers, not just float through classes for grades. There are tons of people out there with an education but not very enlightened about things. I hate analogies, but I've met several people over the course of my short life with degrees who have absolutely worthless educations. They racked up debt to work unskilled jobs, and complain why companies don't want to hire them with no experience, internships and lackluster academic records. I know the paper makes people feel good, but at what point is our society going to start rejecting the feelgood, everybody wins attitude? You should not have to have a college education to have a good life or populace (look at America early 1900s and all the modern luxuries that exist today from that time period). Trades, entrepreneurship, etc are all alternative good paths that should be encouraged. College educations are nice, but there is a pretty long list of people who did not complete or even reach college who are successful and making contributions to society: http://www.collegedropoutshalloffame.com http://www.collegedropoutshalloffame.com
- epoxyhockey 12y ago
  If a Starbucks barista wants to pursue continuing education for free, why would you ever argue against that? Especially when 70% of employees wish to do so? Even if they only pick up a single additional piece of knowledge from the ASU program, they are a better person in the end. And, you benefit from that whenever you interact with the person.
  - zghst 12y ago
    I'm not arguing against a choice an individual seems fit for their benefit at all. I only question the value of college education in today's society. It is less magical and great than people proclaim it to be, college education needs more investment than just sitting in front of a computer or in lectures. Also people with college are not necessarily better than people without college, that is an offensive view and very disrespectful to the millions of people without college educations who have done great things for this country and all over the world. Yes education is great (college is not the sole source of education), but one has to appreciate and work hard at their education to really claim that they are 'educated'.

ryanfreeborn 12y ago

Yup. Couldn't agree more with this response. There is this growing contrarian sentiment—particularly in the HN and Reddit communities—that "college isn't for everyone". The college industrial complex aside, I cannot see how further education—particularly through programs like this one—could ever be a bad thing. After all, education is the silver bullet.

Chronic28 12y ago
People are not actually learning. They are simply "along for the ride" while memorizing for tests so they can land a job and forget most of the things they've learned. Perhaps we should improve our secondary education as we are lacking on that front in America instead of encouraging everyone to take 4 more years out of their working lives.
- jimmaswell 12y ago
  I've witnessed this, myself. It shows itself as a lot of questions about what's going to be on a test instead of trying to understand the material.
gaius 12y ago
There are many important, useful, societally and culturally valuable things, that are not best suited to being studied as an academic degree.
aestra 12y ago
>I cannot see how further education—particularly through programs like this one—could ever be a bad thing Opportunity costs for one.
- genericuser 12y ago
  Opportunity costs do not make things bad. They can make things worse than an alternative or better than an alternative. If the person choosing what to do with their life is able to see an existing opportunity which is better than education then they should choose it, why would they not? But if they are unable to see such opportunities then choosing to become more educated is not a bad choice provided as is the case in this situation that it does not present an additional financial burden. One could even argue that the set of options one should consider when weighing opportunity cost should only be composed of the options to which the decision maker is aware (can reasonably be expected to become aware) of.
  - aestra 12y ago
    >But if they are unable to see such opportunities then choosing to become more educated is not a bad choice provided as is the case in this situation that it does not present an additional financial burden. You aren't taking into consideration opportunity costs. I spend 4 years at school to get a Spanish degree that doesn't cost anything for me to go. Now I have a Spanish degree and I have exactly the same job as I could have gotten before the degree. I've wasted 4 years where I could have been making a salary, pursuing hobbies, raising children, etc. We shouldn't be like: 1) Take a class/get a degree in anything with no plan whatsoever. 2) ??? 3) PROFIT!
    - genericuser 12y ago
      No, I am. But you don't seem to understand the difference between hindsight and opportunity cost. (Either that or are trolling me, in which case success for you I guess) I specifically said: "is able to see an existing opportunity which is better than education then they should choose it, why would they not?" So you chose Education presumably because you thought getting a Spanish degree was a better option than those others, therefore you viewed the other options as having the opportunity cost. In which case you may have been bad at estimating benefit, or perhaps the choices you were trying to value were simply too unpredictable, but you followed the idea of opportunity cost correctly. Or even worse you knew those options were better and you chose an option you recognized as worse, in which case WHY? Opportunity cost is not a synonym for hindsight it is about weighing two decisions with information you have available (or can have) at the time. Edit: Also now you know Spanish which should bring you as a person some level of enjoyment, and is therefore a benefit. If not I wonder why you would of kept studying it.

zghst 12y ago

I disagree especially because the quality of everyone's education is not the same. While education may seem like the great equalizer, people have to enter school willing to learn, explore and engage with their peers, not just float through classes for grades. There are tons of people out there with an education but not very enlightened about things. I hate analogies, but I've met several people over the course of my short life with degrees who have absolutely worthless educations. They racked up debt to work unskilled jobs, and complain why companies don't want to hire them with no experience, internships and lackluster academic records. I know the paper makes people feel good, but at what point is our society going to start rejecting the feelgood, everybody wins attitude? You should not have to have a college education to have a good life or populace (look at America early 1900s and all the modern luxuries that exist today from that time period). Trades, entrepreneurship, etc are all alternative good paths that should be encouraged. College educations are nice, but there is a pretty long list of people who did not complete or even reach college who are successful and making contributions to society: http://www.collegedropoutshalloffame.com http://www.collegedropoutshalloffame.com

epoxyhockey 12y ago
If a Starbucks barista wants to pursue continuing education for free, why would you ever argue against that? Especially when 70% of employees wish to do so? Even if they only pick up a single additional piece of knowledge from the ASU program, they are a better person in the end. And, you benefit from that whenever you interact with the person.
- zghst 12y ago
  I'm not arguing against a choice an individual seems fit for their benefit at all. I only question the value of college education in today's society. It is less magical and great than people proclaim it to be, college education needs more investment than just sitting in front of a computer or in lectures. Also people with college are not necessarily better than people without college, that is an offensive view and very disrespectful to the millions of people without college educations who have done great things for this country and all over the world. Yes education is great (college is not the sole source of education), but one has to appreciate and work hard at their education to really claim that they are 'educated'.