7 ms·

If fewer people got philosophy degrees or other majors of questionable utility in the work force and instead focused on getting an education in marketable skill

If fewer people got philosophy degrees or other majors of questionable utility in the work force and instead focused on getting an education in marketable skills with job openings maybe the story might be different. This trajectory of being an undecided major and then just kind of getting some degree or other with the hopes just having that paper will land you a job somewhere never struck me as realistic. For the United States, there is even a site where you can help plan your next ten years, find something that's high growth: http://www.bls.gov/ooh/ http://www.bls.gov/ooh/ You can sort occupations by projected growth rate: http://www.bls.gov/ooh/occupation-finder.htm?pay=&education=&training=&newjobs=&growth=30+percent+or+faster&submit=GO http://www.bls.gov/ooh/occupation-finder.htm?pay=&education=...

nahname 12y ago
The problem is opportunity has fled this generation of students. We have boomer managers with non-relevant degrees posting entry level jobs expecting 4 year degrees and five years of highly specialized relevant work experience.
- leorocky 12y ago
  The thing about a capitalist economy is that people need to create opportunities. If more people optimized their career better we'd have better ratio of matching opportunities with workers which will mean less unemployed people which means economic growth which would could lead to more growth. Looking to the government to enact keysnian economics didn't work so well for Japan. And anyway policy matters and is important, but people at the same time need to take their lives in their own hands and make changes. Hard changes. Just like we're always trying to get everyone to give up their gas guzzling carbon emitters, we should also be trying to get everyone to adopt a little bit more of a responsibility of managing their own lives. For the social good. The more people earn, the more wealth we have to lift all boats.
Grae 12y ago
Undergraduate education is not synonymous with vocational training. There is value in degrees like philosophy and other "questionable" majors not directly related to their utility in the job market. Don't get me wrong: many undergrads would be better off for paying greater attention to the job market and their coming role in it, but education can also be a step towards less tangible goals or an end in itself.
- enraged_camel 12y ago
  >>There is value in degrees like philosophy and other "questionable" majors not directly related to their utility in the job market. The problem is that this value is intangible and cannot help with more worldly problems such as paying the bills. Until we have social policies that take care of those worldly problems (such as basic income), people are better off treating undergraduate education as vocational training.
- leorocky 12y ago
  Right, I wasn't tying it to undergraduate education. There's nothing wrong at all with vocational training, in fact, I'm pro on that. You can pick up 19th century Russian literature later in life (and you should as it's pretty great).
- avz 12y ago
  > There is value in degrees like philosophy and other "questionable" majors Yes, there is value in philosophy etc, but it is value for you. It is selfish. In a fair and free market society you need to give in order to receive. Once you render yourself unable to deliver value to others, you shouldn't expect others to deliver value to you.
igravious 12y ago
Because, yeah, it's individuals making dumb choices that is the problem -- it could never be the social systems around us that is the problem. Maybe I don't care if my degree (philosophy) has questionable utility in the work force. Maybe I don't want to be "employable". Maybe I chose to study philosophy and didn't fall into into because I was undecided. For you realism is adapting to the world. For me realism is making sense of the world, figuring out if perhaps there could be a better world, and constructing the world that I would like to live in and that I would like my kids to live in. You don't get to decide for me what I should study in the same way I don't get to decide for you what you should study. If you'd studied philosophy you'd be able to see stuff like that easily.
- avz 12y ago
  > Maybe I don't care if my degree (philosophy) has questionable utility in the work force. Maybe I don't want to be "employable". This is a perfectly valid position and stands in no contradiction to the parent post. I think the parent post was tacitly referring to people who want to have the cake and eat it too: study subjects of questionable market utility and be employable at the same time.
- JackMorgan 12y ago
  I would argue a bunch of people who don't care about being "employable" create a social system of people who want to live a life of leisure and have someone else pay for it. Just as you don't get to decide what I study, you don't get to decide what society owes you for being born. Which is another way of saying: you don't get to decide what I do with my money.
  - ForHackernews 12y ago
    > a social system of people who want to live a life of leisure and have someone else pay for it. Good! That's the utopia we should all be aspiring to. In the foreseeable future (perhaps 100-200 years), increases in automation and efficiency should allow us to support most of humanity in at least passable comfort with minimal labor. http://www.basicincome.org/ http://www.basicincome.org/

nahname 12y ago

The problem is opportunity has fled this generation of students. We have boomer managers with non-relevant degrees posting entry level jobs expecting 4 year degrees and five years of highly specialized relevant work experience.

leorocky 12y ago
The thing about a capitalist economy is that people need to create opportunities. If more people optimized their career better we'd have better ratio of matching opportunities with workers which will mean less unemployed people which means economic growth which would could lead to more growth. Looking to the government to enact keysnian economics didn't work so well for Japan. And anyway policy matters and is important, but people at the same time need to take their lives in their own hands and make changes. Hard changes. Just like we're always trying to get everyone to give up their gas guzzling carbon emitters, we should also be trying to get everyone to adopt a little bit more of a responsibility of managing their own lives. For the social good. The more people earn, the more wealth we have to lift all boats.

Grae 12y ago

Undergraduate education is not synonymous with vocational training. There is value in degrees like philosophy and other "questionable" majors not directly related to their utility in the job market. Don't get me wrong: many undergrads would be better off for paying greater attention to the job market and their coming role in it, but education can also be a step towards less tangible goals or an end in itself.

enraged_camel 12y ago
>>There is value in degrees like philosophy and other "questionable" majors not directly related to their utility in the job market. The problem is that this value is intangible and cannot help with more worldly problems such as paying the bills. Until we have social policies that take care of those worldly problems (such as basic income), people are better off treating undergraduate education as vocational training.
leorocky 12y ago
Right, I wasn't tying it to undergraduate education. There's nothing wrong at all with vocational training, in fact, I'm pro on that. You can pick up 19th century Russian literature later in life (and you should as it's pretty great).
avz 12y ago
> There is value in degrees like philosophy and other "questionable" majors Yes, there is value in philosophy etc, but it is value for you. It is selfish. In a fair and free market society you need to give in order to receive. Once you render yourself unable to deliver value to others, you shouldn't expect others to deliver value to you.

igravious 12y ago

Because, yeah, it's individuals making dumb choices that is the problem -- it could never be the social systems around us that is the problem. Maybe I don't care if my degree (philosophy) has questionable utility in the work force. Maybe I don't want to be "employable". Maybe I chose to study philosophy and didn't fall into into because I was undecided. For you realism is adapting to the world. For me realism is making sense of the world, figuring out if perhaps there could be a better world, and constructing the world that I would like to live in and that I would like my kids to live in. You don't get to decide for me what I should study in the same way I don't get to decide for you what you should study. If you'd studied philosophy you'd be able to see stuff like that easily.

avz 12y ago
> Maybe I don't care if my degree (philosophy) has questionable utility in the work force. Maybe I don't want to be "employable". This is a perfectly valid position and stands in no contradiction to the parent post. I think the parent post was tacitly referring to people who want to have the cake and eat it too: study subjects of questionable market utility and be employable at the same time.
JackMorgan 12y ago
I would argue a bunch of people who don't care about being "employable" create a social system of people who want to live a life of leisure and have someone else pay for it. Just as you don't get to decide what I study, you don't get to decide what society owes you for being born. Which is another way of saying: you don't get to decide what I do with my money.
- ForHackernews 12y ago
  > a social system of people who want to live a life of leisure and have someone else pay for it. Good! That's the utopia we should all be aspiring to. In the foreseeable future (perhaps 100-200 years), increases in automation and efficiency should allow us to support most of humanity in at least passable comfort with minimal labor. http://www.basicincome.org/ http://www.basicincome.org/