5 ms·

Why the Japanese Don't Litter

73 points by jmduke 12y ago

skwirl 12y ago
If you are actually wondering "Why the Japanese Don't Litter" let me save you the trouble of reading this article, which basically can be summed up as "Because they don't."
- carsongross 12y ago
  And that, right there, is an profound summary of why a strong, common culture is so important for a social unit: it's the only proven way to escape the prisoner's dilemma of society. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOK6mE7sdvs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOK6mE7sdvs
  - dropit_sphere 12y ago
    Careful comrade, you're bordering on crimethink there. Why, next you'll be reading unsanitized research papers! Be on the right side of history, comrade.
    - carsongross 12y ago
      https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/3935515136/hA69BE910/ https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/3935515136/hA69BE910/
hkmurakami 12y ago
Japan's very low number of public trash cans isn't just because of this "tradition and culture of courtesy and bringing trash home". It is also a direct result of a Sarin gas terrorism attack that hit the Tokyo subway system in 1995, whereupon some of the weaponry was deposited in a public trash can. Afterwards, the number of public trash cans was dramatically reduced. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin_gas_attack_on_the_Tokyo_subway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin_gas_attack_on_the_Tokyo_... Source: Friend who grew up in Tokyo and was 10 years old when the attacks happened. He was using one of the attacked subway lines regularly.
- ekianjo 12y ago
  > It is also a direct result of a Sarin gas terrorism attack that hit the Tokyo subway system in 1995, Precisely, the author is just plain ignorant. By the way the same thing happened in France after the metro bombinga.
  - Semiapies 12y ago
    And in the UK after enough IRA bombs in wastebins.
    - oneeyedpigeon 12y ago
      And, of course, getting rid of wastebins in the UK hasn't stopped bombings altogether, but it has made it frustratingly difficult to dispose of your litter (I do happen to always take mine with me anyway, but evidence suggests plenty of people don't). Much better - and in use in sensible locations - is a simple transparent bin/bag. Why they're not in use in more places, I'm not sure.
      - ekianjo 12y ago
        > is a simple transparent bin/bag It's been the standard in Paris for a while now. It has its own problems, though (bags breaking, making litter spill all around...)
      - qq66 12y ago
        When I lived in the UK (2002-2003) I was told that its perfectly acceptable to leave your litter on the train platform against the wall as there are people who regularly come by to clear it. Is this still true?
        diroussel 12y ago
        Yes that's right. There are no bins in the statition but there are often cleaners. Still if you can take your rubbish with you that makes for a nicer looking train station.
MVf4l 12y ago
To me, "not littering" is different from "cleaning up for others". I need an article to explain why the Japanese clean up for others.
- VeejayRampay 12y ago
  Overall, it seems from my (possibly limited) view of Japanese culture that they tend to put a lot of emphasis on cohesion, respect of authority and laws, not deviating from what's good for the group as a whole. Which has its downsides, surely, but in this case is a good thing.
- Abraln 12y ago
  There is also the possibility that the venue itself, a large area filled with people, visiting a foreign country, would cause the to feel such an obligation as "guests".
- lovemenot 12y ago
  Fans of any flavour enjoy being subsumed by the crowd and I can imagine this behaviour was a way for those Japanese fans to prolong their feeling of group solidarity after the match. I'd like to have witnessed the propagation of the clean-up-the-stadium meme as it happened. My guess is that for most of the fans, they'd have been initially ambivalent; the niceties of this situation being unfamiliar. One fan decided it was the right thing to clean-up and their neighbours then propagated the activity throughout the population without giving it too much thought. Once the cleaning was in motion, each fan would have to define their range of cleaning for themselves. Since the area is not specified, they'd err on the conservative side, cleaning a maximal range for any of their possible ejecta. This would reflect a preoccupation on quality over considerations such as opportunity cost or fairness.
- margold 12y ago
  > I need an article to explain why the Japanese clean up for others. In very broad terms, the culture in Japan is very much "I take care of you, and you take care of me". Sure, it doesn't work the same way abroad, but by the time a Japanese person travels abroad it's already ingrained at a subconscious level. Source: lived in Japan for 3 years, have a Japan-educated grandmother.
127 12y ago
Why do people clean their room and not throw trash on the floor? The same reason.
arete 12y ago
Conversely, check out Yoyogi park on the Monday after a hanami weekend. The ground is covered in garbage, broken bottles, cans, etc. Or check out the square at Shinbashi station after the salarymen finish their impromptu outdoor happy hour. All flat surfaces are littered with convenience store wrappers, empty beer cans and cigarette butts.
- hkmurakami 12y ago
  The culture of conformity is at work even during times of disobedience. ;) edit: Kind of like "cut days!"
wavefunction 12y ago
America is actually quite tidy compared to much of the world I've visited, where the notion of binning rubbish is completely absent and children, animals, and adults are exposed to litter and refuse and pollution as a constant and inescapable fact of life. Hard to take this seriously.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
11thEarlOfMar 12y ago
Google in Images "Japanese school children clean their classrooms" and you'll find dozens of photos, not just of putting things away, but literally scrubbing the classroom floors. Even one photo of the guys cleaning the urinals. Maybe a prank shot. But may as well not be. The Japanese see cleanliness and orderliness as a primary virtue and leaving a place that they have used clean is taught and reinforced by peer behavior at a young enough age as to become second nature. The fans at Toulouse probably didn't even think about it.
- edandersen 12y ago
  Not a prank shot - they have actually managed to convince generations of kids to clean their school's toilets using chemicals and no special training. They mask it as "culture" but it's a cost saving measure, they could be getting lessons and an education during that time.
  - deciplex 12y ago
    I don't think you can really separate it out like that. It is part of what You Just Do At School, definitely, but it is also conveniently a cost-saving measure, sure. That doesn't mean that if you tried to cut it out, that parents wouldn't complain about it. At any rate, having seen both, I assure you that there is infinitely more bullshit that American kids are doing at school instead of learning, compared to Japanese.
  - evan_ 12y ago
    Learning how to clean is a pretty good lesson.
- ekianjo 12y ago
  > but literally scrubbing the classroom floors. Even one photo of the guys cleaning the urinals. Maybe a prank shot. But may as well not be. The kids have to. You know, it's imposed by the teachers.
  - itazula 12y ago
ekianjo 12y ago
Japanese dont litter ? This must be a good joke !! Japanese litter everywhere where they feel safe to do it. Go to a Hanabi Taikai (fireworks in summer) and on your way back you will be WALKING on litter for 1 kilometer. Go hiking in the mountains and you will see the extent of Japanese littering when noone is looking. Mountains of cans thrown away by hikers. Go in the countryside and see whay people leave on the side of the street. Oh yeah, they do litter just like everyone else, they are just a little more ashamed to do it public, and in the city the public services are just very efficient at cleaning up anyway.
- a8da6b0c91d 12y ago
  There's trash all over the street in parts of Roppongi and Kabukicho on a Friday or Saturday night, same as any bar district in the US or Europe. I think people are overlooking that it's rich folks at the World Cup. I doubt the Americans down there are leaving trash around either.
  - spoint 12y ago
    Neither of these places are pinnacles of Japanese society - all bars, strip joints, and foreigners.
- 6cxs2hd6 12y ago
  After reading tourist books about how Japanese people think it's rude to blow your nose in public... it is slightly disconcerting to visit and see a guy hawk up some phlegm and spit it on the street. And/or, you step on a frozen goober, sparkling in the sun. Even to the extent the generalization about a culture is true, there will always be interesting exceptions.
itazula 12y ago
In Tokyo, I do very occasionally see people eating while walking or even inside a train. It's probably more common now simply because there are more take-out possibilities, e.g. take-out from Starbucks. There seems to be less stigma now. The article paints a little bit of a rosy picture regarding people and their trash. I do often take home my trash so that it can be properly disposed of (the city picks up different kinds of trash on different days, for proper disposal or recycling), but I do this somewhat reluctantly. Who wants to carry around trash? And sometimes, if I'm lazy, I put the trash into the outside trash bins of whatever convenience store happens to be nearby. In fact, I think the now ubiquitous presence of convenience stores goes a long way to explain why there are very few public trash cans. While most people here do not litter, there is a small percentage who do, either regularly or because they're drunk and have lost their sense of social responsibility. But there's always a group of volunteers (often senior citizens) who clean things up every morning. Also, the well-heeled routes are often in front of stores or restaurants, and it's not surprising that someone will be cleaning up in front. But overall, there is very little littering.
- free2rhyme214 12y ago
  Ya it was cleaner when I was in Tokyo but people also smoke more there and the subways are crowded. Pros and cons.
  - itazula 12y ago
    The smoking is a peeve of mine. So many young people in Japan smoking. It's very surprising because people know better.
    - ekianjo 12y ago
      There's no real campaign against smoking in Japan. The most "anti-tobacco" ads you see are about making sure you don't bother people around you when you smoke. And they don't really work, because smokers in Japan are completely inconsiderate of people around them. In Europe I have seen many smokers asking in restaurants before lighting one "does it bother you if I smoke?" but in Japan this would extraordinary to hear that. So, yeah, Japan, people, politeness, respect, etc... well yeah, it kind of works, but in many situations it's sub-standard.
profquail 12y ago
I'm getting a 503 error from the link; here's a Coral Cache version that's working: http://japantravelcafe.com.nyud.net:8080/japanese-culture-2/why-the-japanese-dont-litter http://japantravelcafe.com.nyud.net:8080/japanese-culture-2/...
nikatwork 12y ago
Last time I was in Shinjuku (2009) there were actual cigarette police in special uniforms who followed smokers around and publicly chastised or fined them if they littered. I saw 3 salarymen get busted within about 15 minutes. The fact that this system even exists indicates that the Japanese do litter. On the flipside, all the fast food joints had wastebins sorted by garbage type, and I did get death stares when I accidentally put some rubbish in the wrong one. Eating while walking also got dirty looks, but conversely you could buy beer and snacks on some of the trains and drinking alcohol in public is allowed. Site has been hugged to death, cache: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:oIkNRIMkh-IJ:japantravelcafe.com/japanese-culture-2/why-the-japanese-dont-litter+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:oIkNRIM...
- ekianjo 12y ago
  > Last time I was in Shinjuku (2009) there were actual cigarette police in special uniforms who followed smokers around and publicly chastised or fined them if they littered. It's probably not working very well, because Shinjuku in the morning (at least Kabukicho, if that's what you were referring to) looks like a warzone filled with trash. They do an amazing job to clean it up everyday, however.
  - nikatwork 12y ago
    It was the South-West end during the daytime, the crowd seemed mostly business people. I get the feeling that Kabukicho and Golden Gai are treated as their own little walled gardens of sin :) I was also surprised by the number and condition of the homeless. I had expected a communal minded society would look after such people.
- minikomi 12y ago
  This is more to harass people (walking and) smoking away from the designated zones in general. Serves two purposes - enforces a pretty big change in habit, and creates jobs for older people.
- boobsbr 12y ago
  Paris would benefit from a cigarette police. Smokers there throw cigarette butts anywhere. Street sweepers deal mostly with cigarettes, and they use a ton of water to sweep it all into the sewers.
pcurve 12y ago
When I was in Japan for a few weeks, I was shocked how immaculate the whole country was. You know what else shocked me? A flight attendant passing through the airport lobby noticed a small piece of paper litter on the floor. Without any hesitation, she picked it up and put it in her pocket. You see other workers do the same. They don't just leave it up to cleaning staff. Everybody helps out. It's a cultural thing.

73 points by jmduke 12y ago

If you are actually wondering "Why the Japanese Don't Litter" let me save you the trouble of reading this article, which basically can be summed up as "Because they don't."

carsongross 12y ago
And that, right there, is an profound summary of why a strong, common culture is so important for a social unit: it's the only proven way to escape the prisoner's dilemma of society. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOK6mE7sdvs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOK6mE7sdvs
- dropit_sphere 12y ago
  Careful comrade, you're bordering on crimethink there. Why, next you'll be reading unsanitized research papers! Be on the right side of history, comrade.
  - carsongross 12y ago
    https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/3935515136/hA69BE910/ https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/3935515136/hA69BE910/

hkmurakami 12y ago

Japan's very low number of public trash cans isn't just because of this "tradition and culture of courtesy and bringing trash home". It is also a direct result of a Sarin gas terrorism attack that hit the Tokyo subway system in 1995, whereupon some of the weaponry was deposited in a public trash can. Afterwards, the number of public trash cans was dramatically reduced. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin_gas_attack_on_the_Tokyo_subway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin_gas_attack_on_the_Tokyo_... Source: Friend who grew up in Tokyo and was 10 years old when the attacks happened. He was using one of the attacked subway lines regularly.

ekianjo 12y ago
> It is also a direct result of a Sarin gas terrorism attack that hit the Tokyo subway system in 1995, Precisely, the author is just plain ignorant. By the way the same thing happened in France after the metro bombinga.
- Semiapies 12y ago
  And in the UK after enough IRA bombs in wastebins.
  - oneeyedpigeon 12y ago
    And, of course, getting rid of wastebins in the UK hasn't stopped bombings altogether, but it has made it frustratingly difficult to dispose of your litter (I do happen to always take mine with me anyway, but evidence suggests plenty of people don't). Much better - and in use in sensible locations - is a simple transparent bin/bag. Why they're not in use in more places, I'm not sure.
    - ekianjo 12y ago
      > is a simple transparent bin/bag It's been the standard in Paris for a while now. It has its own problems, though (bags breaking, making litter spill all around...)
    - qq66 12y ago
      When I lived in the UK (2002-2003) I was told that its perfectly acceptable to leave your litter on the train platform against the wall as there are people who regularly come by to clear it. Is this still true?
      - diroussel 12y ago
        Yes that's right. There are no bins in the statition but there are often cleaners. Still if you can take your rubbish with you that makes for a nicer looking train station.

MVf4l 12y ago

To me, "not littering" is different from "cleaning up for others". I need an article to explain why the Japanese clean up for others.

VeejayRampay 12y ago
Overall, it seems from my (possibly limited) view of Japanese culture that they tend to put a lot of emphasis on cohesion, respect of authority and laws, not deviating from what's good for the group as a whole. Which has its downsides, surely, but in this case is a good thing.
Abraln 12y ago
There is also the possibility that the venue itself, a large area filled with people, visiting a foreign country, would cause the to feel such an obligation as "guests".
lovemenot 12y ago
Fans of any flavour enjoy being subsumed by the crowd and I can imagine this behaviour was a way for those Japanese fans to prolong their feeling of group solidarity after the match. I'd like to have witnessed the propagation of the clean-up-the-stadium meme as it happened. My guess is that for most of the fans, they'd have been initially ambivalent; the niceties of this situation being unfamiliar. One fan decided it was the right thing to clean-up and their neighbours then propagated the activity throughout the population without giving it too much thought. Once the cleaning was in motion, each fan would have to define their range of cleaning for themselves. Since the area is not specified, they'd err on the conservative side, cleaning a maximal range for any of their possible ejecta. This would reflect a preoccupation on quality over considerations such as opportunity cost or fairness.
margold 12y ago
> I need an article to explain why the Japanese clean up for others. In very broad terms, the culture in Japan is very much "I take care of you, and you take care of me". Sure, it doesn't work the same way abroad, but by the time a Japanese person travels abroad it's already ingrained at a subconscious level. Source: lived in Japan for 3 years, have a Japan-educated grandmother.

127 12y ago

Why do people clean their room and not throw trash on the floor? The same reason.

arete 12y ago

Conversely, check out Yoyogi park on the Monday after a hanami weekend. The ground is covered in garbage, broken bottles, cans, etc. Or check out the square at Shinbashi station after the salarymen finish their impromptu outdoor happy hour. All flat surfaces are littered with convenience store wrappers, empty beer cans and cigarette butts.

hkmurakami 12y ago
The culture of conformity is at work even during times of disobedience. ;) edit: Kind of like "cut days!"

wavefunction 12y ago

America is actually quite tidy compared to much of the world I've visited, where the notion of binning rubbish is completely absent and children, animals, and adults are exposed to litter and refuse and pollution as a constant and inescapable fact of life. Hard to take this seriously.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

11thEarlOfMar 12y ago

Google in Images "Japanese school children clean their classrooms" and you'll find dozens of photos, not just of putting things away, but literally scrubbing the classroom floors. Even one photo of the guys cleaning the urinals. Maybe a prank shot. But may as well not be. The Japanese see cleanliness and orderliness as a primary virtue and leaving a place that they have used clean is taught and reinforced by peer behavior at a young enough age as to become second nature. The fans at Toulouse probably didn't even think about it.

edandersen 12y ago
Not a prank shot - they have actually managed to convince generations of kids to clean their school's toilets using chemicals and no special training. They mask it as "culture" but it's a cost saving measure, they could be getting lessons and an education during that time.
- deciplex 12y ago
  I don't think you can really separate it out like that. It is part of what You Just Do At School, definitely, but it is also conveniently a cost-saving measure, sure. That doesn't mean that if you tried to cut it out, that parents wouldn't complain about it. At any rate, having seen both, I assure you that there is infinitely more bullshit that American kids are doing at school instead of learning, compared to Japanese.
- evan_ 12y ago
  Learning how to clean is a pretty good lesson.
ekianjo 12y ago
> but literally scrubbing the classroom floors. Even one photo of the guys cleaning the urinals. Maybe a prank shot. But may as well not be. The kids have to. You know, it's imposed by the teachers.
- itazula 12y ago

ekianjo 12y ago

Japanese dont litter ? This must be a good joke !! Japanese litter everywhere where they feel safe to do it. Go to a Hanabi Taikai (fireworks in summer) and on your way back you will be WALKING on litter for 1 kilometer. Go hiking in the mountains and you will see the extent of Japanese littering when noone is looking. Mountains of cans thrown away by hikers. Go in the countryside and see whay people leave on the side of the street. Oh yeah, they do litter just like everyone else, they are just a little more ashamed to do it public, and in the city the public services are just very efficient at cleaning up anyway.

a8da6b0c91d 12y ago
There's trash all over the street in parts of Roppongi and Kabukicho on a Friday or Saturday night, same as any bar district in the US or Europe. I think people are overlooking that it's rich folks at the World Cup. I doubt the Americans down there are leaving trash around either.
- spoint 12y ago
  Neither of these places are pinnacles of Japanese society - all bars, strip joints, and foreigners.
6cxs2hd6 12y ago
After reading tourist books about how Japanese people think it's rude to blow your nose in public... it is slightly disconcerting to visit and see a guy hawk up some phlegm and spit it on the street. And/or, you step on a frozen goober, sparkling in the sun. Even to the extent the generalization about a culture is true, there will always be interesting exceptions.

itazula 12y ago

In Tokyo, I do very occasionally see people eating while walking or even inside a train. It's probably more common now simply because there are more take-out possibilities, e.g. take-out from Starbucks. There seems to be less stigma now. The article paints a little bit of a rosy picture regarding people and their trash. I do often take home my trash so that it can be properly disposed of (the city picks up different kinds of trash on different days, for proper disposal or recycling), but I do this somewhat reluctantly. Who wants to carry around trash? And sometimes, if I'm lazy, I put the trash into the outside trash bins of whatever convenience store happens to be nearby. In fact, I think the now ubiquitous presence of convenience stores goes a long way to explain why there are very few public trash cans. While most people here do not litter, there is a small percentage who do, either regularly or because they're drunk and have lost their sense of social responsibility. But there's always a group of volunteers (often senior citizens) who clean things up every morning. Also, the well-heeled routes are often in front of stores or restaurants, and it's not surprising that someone will be cleaning up in front. But overall, there is very little littering.

free2rhyme214 12y ago
Ya it was cleaner when I was in Tokyo but people also smoke more there and the subways are crowded. Pros and cons.
- itazula 12y ago
  The smoking is a peeve of mine. So many young people in Japan smoking. It's very surprising because people know better.
  - ekianjo 12y ago
    There's no real campaign against smoking in Japan. The most "anti-tobacco" ads you see are about making sure you don't bother people around you when you smoke. And they don't really work, because smokers in Japan are completely inconsiderate of people around them. In Europe I have seen many smokers asking in restaurants before lighting one "does it bother you if I smoke?" but in Japan this would extraordinary to hear that. So, yeah, Japan, people, politeness, respect, etc... well yeah, it kind of works, but in many situations it's sub-standard.

profquail 12y ago

I'm getting a 503 error from the link; here's a Coral Cache version that's working: http://japantravelcafe.com.nyud.net:8080/japanese-culture-2/why-the-japanese-dont-litter http://japantravelcafe.com.nyud.net:8080/japanese-culture-2/...

nikatwork 12y ago

Last time I was in Shinjuku (2009) there were actual cigarette police in special uniforms who followed smokers around and publicly chastised or fined them if they littered. I saw 3 salarymen get busted within about 15 minutes. The fact that this system even exists indicates that the Japanese do litter. On the flipside, all the fast food joints had wastebins sorted by garbage type, and I did get death stares when I accidentally put some rubbish in the wrong one. Eating while walking also got dirty looks, but conversely you could buy beer and snacks on some of the trains and drinking alcohol in public is allowed. Site has been hugged to death, cache: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:oIkNRIMkh-IJ:japantravelcafe.com/japanese-culture-2/why-the-japanese-dont-litter+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:oIkNRIM...

ekianjo 12y ago
> Last time I was in Shinjuku (2009) there were actual cigarette police in special uniforms who followed smokers around and publicly chastised or fined them if they littered. It's probably not working very well, because Shinjuku in the morning (at least Kabukicho, if that's what you were referring to) looks like a warzone filled with trash. They do an amazing job to clean it up everyday, however.
- nikatwork 12y ago
  It was the South-West end during the daytime, the crowd seemed mostly business people. I get the feeling that Kabukicho and Golden Gai are treated as their own little walled gardens of sin :) I was also surprised by the number and condition of the homeless. I had expected a communal minded society would look after such people.
minikomi 12y ago
This is more to harass people (walking and) smoking away from the designated zones in general. Serves two purposes - enforces a pretty big change in habit, and creates jobs for older people.
boobsbr 12y ago
Paris would benefit from a cigarette police. Smokers there throw cigarette butts anywhere. Street sweepers deal mostly with cigarettes, and they use a ton of water to sweep it all into the sewers.

pcurve 12y ago

When I was in Japan for a few weeks, I was shocked how immaculate the whole country was. You know what else shocked me? A flight attendant passing through the airport lobby noticed a small piece of paper litter on the floor. Without any hesitation, she picked it up and put it in her pocket. You see other workers do the same. They don't just leave it up to cleaning staff. Everybody helps out. It's a cultural thing.